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Author Topic: How much less than full volume will this be?  (Read 10324 times)

Joseph D. Macry

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How much less than full volume will this be?
« on: May 20, 2014, 09:41:22 am »

I'm dealing with a gym sound designed specified by non-audio guys.
They specified the Octasound SP820A speaker cluster for a middle school gym, powered by Telecor 125 watt amp. The speaker is rated at 200 watts program. I suggested they upgrade to the Telecor 250 amp (250 watts @ 8ohms), otherwise the speaker will operate at "less than full volume."
They came back and asked "How much less than full volume ?"

Now I'm wondering how to quantify this, especially in a way that they will understand.
(There are political reasons for staying with the same brand of amp.)

Link to the speaker: http://www.octasound.com/products/360-x-180-models/sp820a-12-inch
Link to the amp: http://www.mytelecor.com/products_Amplifiers.php
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Joseph Macry,
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Steve M Smith

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Re: How much less than full volume will this be?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2014, 09:47:42 am »

Does it need to operate at 'full' volume?


Steve.
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Joseph D. Macry

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Re: How much less than full volume will this be?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2014, 10:23:07 am »

Does it need to operate at 'full' volume?

In a gym full of a few hundred middle school kids, I would expect that more is going to be better. Other than that, there is the general principal that the amp should be equal to or greater than speaker rating. Yes, it will work with the smaller amp, as long as it isn't clipping. Oddly, the manufacturer specs say that "optimum" power is 50 to 150 watts, which is right where the specified amp is rated.
But for now, the question is, how to quantify the volume difference between this speaker running with a 125 watt amp versus 250.
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Joseph Macry,
Austin, TX

Steve M Smith

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Re: How much less than full volume will this be?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2014, 10:36:28 am »

About +3dB more volume.

Probably only about a 10% difference.

You would need about ten times the power to perceive a doubling in volume.



Steve.
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Joseph D. Macry

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Re: How much less than full volume will this be?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2014, 11:28:34 am »

About +3dB more volume.

Probably only about a 10% difference.

You would need about ten times the power to perceive a doubling in volume.

Steve.

Thank you, Steve. I just got a message that they accepted my proposed upgrade, without the question being answered. Seems the cost difference was not excessive.
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Joseph Macry,
Austin, TX

Craig Hauber

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Re: How much less than full volume will this be?
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2014, 12:56:30 am »

Thank you, Steve. I just got a message that they accepted my proposed upgrade, without the question being answered. Seems the cost difference was not excessive.
Good, now talk them out of that speaker unit and they'll be even happier.

Those octosound units seem to be always under-spec'ed for the room and I've never heard one not being driven to death just trying to keep up with basic speech, let alone music.  (In fact I can safely say I've never heard one sounding good at all!)
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: How much less than full volume will this be?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2014, 11:27:35 pm »

Good, now talk them out of that speaker unit and they'll be even happier.

Those octosound units seem to be always under-spec'ed for the room and I've never heard one not being driven to death just trying to keep up with basic speech, let alone music.  (In fact I can safely say I've never heard one sounding good at all!)

I'll just sum up Craig's response with "they sound like crap!"

I personally replaced two of the mid sized Octosound speakers in a gym with a nothing fancy system consisting of four properly powered 12 X 1 speakers evenly spaced along each side of the gym aimed into the bleachers and there was no comparison between before and after. That upgrade cost more than the original but the customer was finally happy with the sound in their gym.

Lets just say the speaker components in Octosound boxes I looked at were less than durable, defiantly not Eminence as the website now states.

I will say the design of the box does not lend itself to what they are used for, mounted high up along the roof with the horns all pointing more or less straight out.

Maybe they would work in a lower ceiling install for general paging where the background noise is low.

Here's another major fail I've heard used in gyms.
http://www.soundsphere.com/products/

 

« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 11:29:44 pm by Mike Caldwell »
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: How much less than full volume will this be?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2014, 11:40:46 pm »

I'll just sum up Craig's response with "they sound like crap!"

I personally replaced two of the mid sized Octosound speakers in a gym with a nothing fancy system consisting of four properly powered 12 X 1 speakers evenly spaced along each side of the gym aimed into the bleachers and there was no comparison between before and after. That upgrade cost more than the original but the customer was finally happy with the sound in their gym.

Lets just say the speaker components in Octosound boxes I looked at were less than durable, defiantly not Eminence as the website now states.

I will say the design of the box does not lend itself to what they are used for, mounted high up along the roof with the horns all pointing more or less straight out.

Maybe they would work in a lower ceiling install for general paging where the background noise is low.

Here's another major fail I've heard used in gyms.
http://www.soundsphere.com/products/

 

As I was reading your post all I could think of was the thousands of sound sphere gyms out there.... and then I read your last line and laughed out loud. Apparently people still buy them..... they are still at trade shows.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: How much less than full volume will this be?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2014, 12:03:09 am »

As I was reading your post all I could think of was the thousands of sound sphere gyms out there.... and then I read your last line and laughed out loud. Apparently people still buy them..... they are still at trade shows.

As bad as Octosound sounds I would say that Soundsphere is the clear winner as to how bad a sound system can sound in a gym.
At one time Soundsphere had a "high power" model that appeared to nothing more than one of their spheres with a bunch of piezo tweeters in it pointing out in all directions.
Maybe and again I say maybe.... in the right controlled environment even the Soundsphere might work, in noisy gym packed full of people during a basketball game, not a chance.....ever!

Jason Lavoie

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Re: How much less than full volume will this be?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2014, 09:19:23 am »

As bad as Octosound sounds I would say that Soundsphere is the clear winner as to how bad a sound system can sound in a gym.
At one time Soundsphere had a "high power" model that appeared to nothing more than one of their spheres with a bunch of piezo tweeters in it pointing out in all directions.
Maybe and again I say maybe.... in the right controlled environment even the Soundsphere might work, in noisy gym packed full of people during a basketball game, not a chance.....ever!

Interestingly, Soundsphere has recently (few years?) provided EASE data for their speakers, and funny enough since then the tweeters are only on the bottom side of the sphere now. so it appears that they learned something from the process of measuring their speakers.

Jason
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