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Author Topic: Running long power cables on grass  (Read 28278 times)

Steve M Smith

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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2014, 06:02:50 PM »

But was it listed or rated for direct-bury.

No. Cable rated for burying underground is rated to be there permanently.  There is no cable I know of which would suffer any ill effects from being a buried an inch or two for a few hours then washed off.

I don't know how things are in the UK, but here in the US, an inspector would red-flag that if it wasn't.

Inspector? In thirty years, no one has inspected anything I have been involved in for electrical safety.  It just isn't done here - and I don't think it's needed either as there isn't really a problem.  All we get is a visit from the council's environmental health department (outside events only) who check sound levels in any residential areas.  They take a phone number and go off to measure around the area and say they will call back if there is a problem - they never have.

it's pretty easy to use a flat spade or an edging tool to cut a slit in the sod and insert the cable an inch or two below the surface.

That is what I did rather than dig a trench and bury it.

It was the multi-core and a single power cable.  This was back in 1988 when no one was too bothered about any regulations - if there were any at the time.


Steve.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 02:46:42 AM by Steve M Smith »
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2014, 09:52:46 PM »

The college I used to work at, used to do an outdoor commencement ( then discovered that over 50% of the guests were standing around and not in the amphitheater). Anyway, we used the landscaping staples and the work well for keeping xlr down as well as some 8 pair sub snakes and 12/3 sjo. Anything bigger is a trip hazard stapled or not.  The smaller stuff was fine, especially of the ground was a little wet, things would sink in as they were walked on.  Major travel paths, like where the graduates all walked, we put down carpet. 


In 4 years the only person who fell was the grouchy old bitch in charge whose favorite phase was "we always do it this way" weather she was right or not.   Karma's a bitch...  All the graduates in 4" heels were fine (women's college)
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2014, 10:10:30 PM »

but what a stinky mess two days later when I had to pull the snake out of the mulch.

You can bet , IF I pull a snake out of the mulch it will be a mess-but I might not wait for it to start stinking. ;D
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Steve Swaffer

Tim Perry

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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2014, 10:11:08 PM »

The universal audio answer:  "It depends..."  Some clients want safety, so they order Yellow Jackets only to discover that they're a big tripping hazard.  High contrast yellow & black?  Yep, because people walking in groups tend to converse, and when they're talking they try to look at each other (very human thing to do) rather than looking down to see where they're walking.  We had a client like that, insisting on cable ramps.  The next year they wanted cables buried.  We don't have a problem with that, but the city's park supervisors did...

The real issue here is that whatever you do it will not keep folks from tripping on their own damn shadows, let alone cables.  The key is to do whatever is necessary to pass the 'reasonable person' test should something bad happen and the case goes to court.  Because what is 'reasonable' can vary so widely it's almost impossible to give advice that serves to actually restrain the cables in a meaningful way that can also be seen as reasonable by a jury, but not impede pedestrian or vehicle traffic.

Sometimes just running the cable on the grass will suffice, other times you'll need miles of cable ramps.  It's mostly up to the client and venue management to determine their relative comfort levels.

The ramps would come in handy for car shows where the $#@! cruisers want to drive over the cables... but at $90 to $180 per 3 ft section I decided on orange cones, carpet, rubber mats. 

The carpet is mostly to minimize dirt and just give the appearance of safety. 

Wedding jobs sometime threaten to get nutty with the "Playtex Living Install"  (no visible means of support).  That's the great thing about I pad mixing now. It's easier to say "yep I can do that".
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2014, 02:19:45 AM »

To a plaintiff's lawyer, there is not such thing as a 'reasonable precaution,' and some people make a living by finding any reason at all to sue you. If you posted people to warn everyone who is about to cross a cable, they'd probably still find some reason to sue you.

At least that's the way it is in the United States. Abuse of Justice is a basic human right here.

Minimising a hazard or making the hazard plainly clear are good things.  Just making a hazard less visible is a bad thing.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2014, 03:10:50 AM »

Minimising a hazard or making the hazard plainly clear are good things.  Just making a hazard less visible is a bad thing.

Yepper.  This goes back to the so-called "reasonable person test."  What would a reasonable person in the same situation do to mitigate the potential hazard?

BTW, I will use this opportunity to plug the Event Safety Alliance, a non-profit collaboration between insurers, labor providers and production vendors to develop industry standards to enhance safety for technicians, artists and audiences.

And while I'm veering off, I'll also suggest that folks spend the relatively small amount of money to send yourself and all employees to Red Cross basic first aid training and CPR class.  Really.  Seriously, like a heart attack.

And since this is an electrical forum I'd be remiss if I didn't encourage qualified persons to take the ETCP's Entertainment Electrician certification test.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Steve M Smith

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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2014, 04:04:30 AM »

And while I'm veering off, I'll also suggest that folks spend the relatively small amount of money to send yourself and all employees to Red Cross basic first aid training and CPR class.  Really.  Seriously, like a heart attack.

Definitely a good idea.  The company I work for sent every employee to take a First Aid at Work course.


Steve
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2014, 07:08:58 AM »

Definitely a good idea.  The company I work for sent every employee to take a First Aid at Work course.


Steve

One of my students a few ago was a certified Red Cross Instructor, so he helped me write an article about Compression-Only CPR for shock victims for RVtravel.com - http://rvtravel.com/?q=content/no-shock-zone-part-xii-emergency-care-shock-victims

I'm updating and including this article for a Kindle book I'm writing on RV electrical safety to be published in May.
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Mike Sokol
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2014, 07:19:24 AM »

I am more aware of first aid now as my son is training to be a paramedic and is also a member of St John Ambulance.


Steve.
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2014, 04:58:22 PM »

Interesting how different events can be.   I show at a lot of antique engine shows.  Almost every engine has exposed moving parts, (Think cranks with a throw of about 10 inches up.  hot parts,  (some with open flame "ignition")  and pinch points everywhere.  Open flywheels range from 18 inches to 22 feet.

The dangers are clear.  The crowds are big.  No one gets hurt.  Here is a typical example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiPKRPUcGl8
Be sure to watch the last engine.  Note people stay away but nothing KEEPS them away. Not even signs or instructions.

Note, I am not advocating any less concern or safety measures at shows involving sound systems and the public.  Just pointing out a different venue with different people.



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Re: Running long power cables on grass
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2014, 04:58:22 PM »


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