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Author Topic: Brand name cost me gigs  (Read 49969 times)

Ray Aberle

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #100 on: April 19, 2014, 10:28:52 am »

Scott, my advice for new purchases (and you may have read this before) is that if new gear will help you keep an account, secure a new and higher-paying account (or lets you raise your rates on existing clients), gain you entree to work that you'd not be considered for otherwise... AND you can have some reasonable idea of the return you'll earn, it probably makes sense to seriously consider adding to your inventory.

*snip* AMAZING TIM INFORMATION

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

As always, Tim gives information that is absolutely spot on.

I would add that another thing that is commonly mentioned on here is appearances. Having a larger inventory of gear will help you to book even just the current "normal" stuff, because people will look at what you have, and see that you are a competent, legitimate provider. Take tech riders. Sometimes they ask for things they really don't need (48ch console, 8 VCAs, mountain of outboard, or just a 5D or SC48 or whatever) -- to ensure that the provider is competent and capable of satisfying their needs. Maybe they only need 16 channels, and a pair of 166XLs, maybe a d2, or whatever, but they can weed out the bottom feeders in this manner.

I remember Evan Kirkendall mentioning a story either on here or on SFN where one of his ATL shows, their main digital foh console died. They have an analog maybe 16ch Mackie as a backup, he repatched the "show bare minimum" to that, and they carried on. A good tech will make things work even in adverse situations, but they have to have the backup on site for it to be beneficial. Those "smaller guys" might not be carrying any sort of backups for mission critical gear, and that can be scary.

Anyways, said it before, will say it again- I think this is a good investment that will (it already has, even before buying it!) bring you new/increased business. Just make sure you're "buying once, crying once" and that the gear you get is the smart business decision.

Sounds like it is!

-Ray "has spent stupid amounts of money on stupid things before he learned better" Aberle
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #101 on: April 19, 2014, 12:53:03 pm »

A good tech will make things work even in adverse situations, but they have to have the backup on site for it to be beneficial. Those "smaller guys" might not be carrying any sort of backups for mission critical gear, and that can be scary.

Even I typically had a spare board, a spare amp or two, an extra crossover, a spare wedge and even a spare pair of mains, plus about twice the cabling I needed.

But I limited myself to whatever I could safely fit in a full size van and what I could set up and tear down myself or with one trusted friend. Also, I did not tie in to power (Edisons only for me) and I did not do rigging. I had a ton of fun, eventually learned how not to lose money, learned a lot of technical stuff, networked like crazy and earned a local reputation.

My hands and back have told me it's time to stop hauling stuff that weighs more than me so I don't provide any more, but I still mix live from time to time and do lots of studio stuff. So maybe I can't get a lot for my gear but I don't care. The difference in resale value is probably about the same as the difference in purchase price so that's a wash anyway. I could chuck in a dumpster, not have to deal with buyers and still come out okay.

Treating as a business is fine, and being professional is necessary, but is money why we get into this thing? When you're in a nursing home with nothing left but your thoughts what would you rather have, memories about how much money you made or memories about what great times you had?

Russ Davis

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« Reply #102 on: April 19, 2014, 07:26:54 pm »

There's someone else on here who is now on my ignore list cos their posts regularly are so full of grammatical and spelling errors that I just can't make them out...

Anyways, way off topic.

Not entirely off-topic, since we're talking about losing gigs.  I wouldn't want to be a Grammar Nazi for these forums (especially given the international makeup of PSW members), but poorly written price quotes, contracts and other business correspondence can DEFINITELY cost gigs.  It's like Van Halen's rationale for the legendary "No Brown M&Ms" clause buried deep in their riders (to ensure the entire rider was being read and complied with).  The potential client is thinking, "If this person doesn't know the difference between There, They're and Their, do I really want him/her flying PA cabinets over my stage?".
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #103 on: April 19, 2014, 08:22:29 pm »

It doesn't even require the reader to make any kind of personal judgement, it is just a distraction, like a pigeon flying overhead and crapping on your resume, changing the subject immediately.

I recall back in the day before we had email and web forums, where I worked had a form of internal electronic mail that ran on the mainframe computer (profs). I recall taking time to teach one of the company directors how to use the spell check that was built it. His electronic memos were embarrassing. However even spell check can't help people who don't read much so don't know what the right word looks like. That's why they have (had?) secretaries

I suspect computer spell checker will get even better about contextual spelling associations, until then try to keep the pigeon poop at bay.   

JR
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #104 on: April 20, 2014, 11:33:52 am »

I'll add to what others said about having inventory to get more clients.

A lot of the times the bands we (and I think most of us) work with do not really know a lot about sound, thought they always think they do. Sometimes having way bigger gear than needed for a gig is what will get you a band. For example if you do a small concert that small speakers would be more than enough headroom for, I think with a lot of the bands (and their egos) they are more likely to go with someone who has a system that Looks big (because if it is big, it must be loud right?) So looks and appearances of your gear will someone times get you the gigs. Just my two cents.
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Conrad Muzoora

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #105 on: April 20, 2014, 02:04:33 pm »

Well even in my side of the Jungle, people are quickly learning that size is not everything! I run ev sx 300 for mains and I am seriously out competing people with double 15" Chinese knock off tops that are really big!
Conrad
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #106 on: April 20, 2014, 02:24:31 pm »

The human decision making process is not completely rational or linear. Just look at all the silly TV commercials that shouldn't fool a school child but guess what. They spend millions on them and keep doing it because it works.

While we may think we are completely rational about making decisions but our "gut" and "intuition" are often influence by the classic Bigger, louder, faster, etc...

JR
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David Parker

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #107 on: April 20, 2014, 06:19:26 pm »

The human decision making process is not completely rational or linear. Just look at all the silly TV commercials that shouldn't fool a school child but guess what. They spend millions on them and keep doing it because it works.

While we may think we are completely rational about making decisions but our "gut" and "intuition" are often influence by the classic Bigger, louder, faster, etc...

JR
I put together a small, efficient system for the clubs where they didn't want it loud. I could run the smaller system louder than a bigger system, and they wouldn't say a word. They saw the big cabs and immediately thought LOUD! They saw the smaller cabs and didn't bother me.
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Mike Monte

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #108 on: April 23, 2014, 09:35:44 pm »

Hello: A local sound guy has switched over to Berringer powered monitors (15 powered) and has added a B digital mixer....  he does quite a few "yearly"  local (hs/col) musical sound plus summer mulitband festivals.   In his words the summer festivals look for "gear" ie; name brands, etc. while the show people look for what works...
His sound co gigs throughout the winter on a weekly basis (doing shows/musicals) and provides rigs for local fests during most weeks of the summer....  His gear IS dated BUT he makes it sound good  all-the-time.  I've been on both sides of the mic at his productions and all is good.

In closing: Once you establish a reputation of giving a client great service (sound/tech/ease of service=communication), you can bring what (gear) you need to do the gig.  if the client is happy, you have another "annual" to add to your yearly schedule.

An assumption: there is alot more B gear in use for pro production than you (I) think....the techs make it work.

Mike M   
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #109 on: April 23, 2014, 09:42:22 pm »

Hello: A local sound guy has switched over to Berringer powered monitors (15 powered) and has added a B digital mixer....  he does quite a few "yearly"  local (hs/col) musical sound plus summer mulitband festivals.   In his words the summer festivals look for "gear" ie; name brands, etc. while the show people look for what works...
His sound co gigs throughout the winter on a weekly basis (doing shows/musicals) and provides rigs for local fests during most weeks of the summer....  His gear IS dated BUT he makes it sound good  all-the-time.  I've been on both sides of the mic at his productions and all is good.

In closing: Once you establish a reputation of giving a client great service (sound/tech/ease of service=communication), you can bring what (gear) you need to do the gig.  if the client is happy, you have another "annual" to add to your yearly schedule.

An assumption: there is alot more B gear in use for pro production than you (I) think....the techs make it work.

Mike M

Sorry but this simply isn't true. You can have all the established reputation in the world. at the end of the day you have to be willing to provide what the client wants or turn them away; be it own the gear they are asking for or renting. Many bands will come through and request the Avid SC48,  and specifically JBL SRX712M stage monitors.

It's about the bands/production manager knowing that the gear will provide the show they are wanting - and I'm sure it's not behringer speakers/monitors.
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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #109 on: April 23, 2014, 09:42:22 pm »


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