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Author Topic: Brand name cost me gigs  (Read 45108 times)

Chuck Simon

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2014, 12:46:55 pm »

It is pretty common to ASSume that sound companies using the cheapest gear will also cut other corners and be less professional about other decisons.

Exactly!  In another life I did sound for a lot of touring country acts and almost all the riders stated "NO PEAVEY".  I'm sure many of those guys had used Peavey and were satisfied with it, they just did not trust a sound company that bought the least expensive equipment they could find. There is some logic there.  The band is already trusting a person they don't know, they would like to at least see equipment they trust.
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2014, 01:18:42 pm »

I may be entirely wrong, but this doesn't sound like a rider to me.  It sounds like, "So what gear do you use?"  "X, X, X and I use B amps."  "Sorry, we'll find someone else."  In my experience, most musicians have no idea what's involved in sound reinforcement and are just going on hearing bad things about Behringer.  If the rest of his rig is up to snuff (assuming he can borrow/rent the additional cabs), the B amps shouldn't kill the deal.

Of course, a lot depends on the options available in his market.

That's pretty much it. The only questions they had were, do you have any other amps other than the Behringers, do you have any other tops and can you get  2 more subs.   They passed on me with the caveat that if I get different amps and 2 more subs to give them a call.  At this time I'm not about to run out and spend $3000 on additional power amps and subs to get one client,(although I frequently buy equipment I do not own at all in order to do a gig properly), but I just wonder how many gigs I've not been considered for and never knew about. 

My goal was best sounding system for least amount of money so I can rent at a reasonable price and get lots of work.  Maybe I need to rethink that and instead of advertising that I use the equipment that sounds the best for their rental money, to  "I only use the brands you know and love"
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2014, 01:18:55 pm »

A little noisy is a very bad quality in audio gear.  A lot of Behinger's gear has extremely poor sonic performance.  This has changed pretty dramatically in the last couple of years, especially noticeable in the X32 line.

A common complaint on the Behringer amps is that they don't perform as well as more professional amps with the same power rating.  I personally experienced this with an older EP2500, which on paper is supposed to be almost identical to a QSC RMX2450.  I can tell you that they aren't even CLOSE in performance.

I have to agree the X32 is pretty Darn good - It's the only behringer gear I've ever own, and probably the only I will ever. (though I have covered the B word on it, and just left the Midas logo showing).


I would say the main reason they are under preformering is simply with what we see a lot of now, even power speakers are getting into it. the Watts wars. 2,000WATS!!!, and never states that peak. I think a lot of manufacturers other than the mainline amp manufacturers way over state their power ratings because the higher wattage looks good on paper to buyers who don't know any better.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 01:20:56 pm by JasonFinnigan »
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2014, 01:24:24 pm »

That's pretty much it. The only questions they had were, do you have any other amps other than the Behringers, do you have any other tops and can you get  2 more subs.   They passed on me with the caveat that if I get different amps and 2 more subs to give them a call.  At this time I'm not about to run out and spend $3000 on additional power amps and subs to get one client,(although I frequently buy equipment I do not own at all in order to do a gig properly), but I just wonder how many gigs I've not been considered for and never knew about. 

My goal was best sounding system for least amount of money so I can rent at a reasonable price and get lots of work.  Maybe I need to rethink that and instead of advertising that I use the equipment that sounds the best for their rental money, to  "I only use the brands you know and love"

Wow, What happen to bar gigs just being some random amps and a pair of Yamaha Club Series speakers? Sounds like they are a big band that is just doing a small show in a bar (like a home coming after a tour). or they just *THINK* they are bigger than they are so they want the best with no $$$ to back it up.

Is this a A Level, B Level or C band? (Well, I know it's not an A level) and is there and actual rider?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 01:27:36 pm by JasonFinnigan »
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Ned Ward

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2014, 01:30:06 pm »

The customer is always right, even then they're ______.

Can't you rent more speakers if needed for a bigger gig?

It is pretty common to ASSume that sound companies using the cheapest gear will also cut other corners and be less professional about other decisons.

Behringer has made a lot of progress trying to reposition themselves, but it is pretty much impossible to enjoy that much success at entry level and simultaneously be considered professional.

Good luck..

JR


This. If they don't want Behringer amps and more subs and you can't buy/rent to satisfy them, then it's not the gig for you. They have the right to ask for certain gear, and agree with John - Behringer has made up some ground with the X32, but it's a long way back before their entire line will be trusted.


A piece of black gaff tape would cover up the offending logos, and then they would look like the QSC RMX2450's they were shamelessly cosmetically copied from. But the long term solution of buying a reputable power amp and keeping these for a B-rig (no pun intended) makes sense.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2014, 01:34:00 pm »

Wow, What happen to bar gigs just being some random amps and a pair of Yamaha Club Series speakers? Sounds like they are a big band that is just doing a small show in a bar (like a home coming after a tour). or they just *THINK* they are bigger than they are so they want the best with no $$$ to back it up.

Is this a A Level, B Level or C band? and is there and actual rider?
All of which is irrelevant - apparently the band is the one deciding on the equipment.  Whether they have a piece of paper that says "rider" on it, or whether they actually need what they are asking for makes no difference - they are in control. 

We can continue to argue about whether it is right or necessary or whatever, but this is fairly standard practice, and has been for decades, and isn't going to change.

Everyone needs to figure out their target market, evaluate what equipment is required, and then do a business analysis to see if that's practical.  With that knowledge, either do it or don't.  Whining about customer requirements is unproductive - the customer is always right.

Next time the OP may be able to offer a standard package with the Behringer amps, and if they balk, it may be a chance to upsell to a different rig with cross-rented equipment.
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Russ Davis

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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2014, 01:42:27 pm »

Some top-line Epiphone models may be superior to low-line Gibsons, but (right or wrong) clients and audience members will obsess on the logo.  Sometimes it pays to pony up the difference to buy (for example) a Crest Pro-Lite amp over its Peavey IPR first cousin, or the Midas M32 vs. the B*******r X32 (basically identical other than the faders and the brand name).
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2014, 01:43:52 pm »


A piece of black gaff tape would cover up the offending logos, and then they would look like the QSC RMX2450's they were shamelessly cosmetically copied from. But the long term solution of buying a reputable power amp and keeping these for a B-rig (no pun intended) makes sense.

You should see our X32's the logos are gaffed over. We still have 1 M7CL48 for when they don't want that but it's going to be going soon. I think having a good relationship with a rental house (were you get great discounts) is key for things like this.  one company is rarely going to have every piece of gear that every band wants on it's rider (or just says). Buying it does not always make sense. like has already been said they customer will get what they want so they are always right, you might not choose to fulfill their request but likely someone will.
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Taylor Hall

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2014, 01:51:39 pm »

A piece of black gaff tape would cover up the offending logos, and then they would look like the QSC RMX2450's they were shamelessly cosmetically copied from. But the long term solution of buying a reputable power amp and keeping these for a B-rig (no pun intended) makes sense.

That's what we did with ours. Put some masking tape over the logos and scribbled on what each amp was driving. No one but the nosiest of passers-by would realize they weren't something from the RMX lineup.
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2014, 03:19:14 pm »


This. If they don't want Behringer amps and more subs and you can't buy/rent to satisfy them, then it's not the gig for you. They have the right to ask for certain gear, and agree with John - Behringer has made up some ground with the X32, but it's a long way back before their entire line will be trusted.


I agree 100%. I totally support the band's decision not to use me. Band needs to be comfortable with what they're getting. They are the customer. If I'm renting some powered speakers and someone offers me some JBL Eons, I'm gonna pass.

Point of post was that buying cheaper equipment, whether it functions OK or not, might be more costly in the big picture if it causes you to lose work. Good business man recognizes opportunities to improve his business model. This was good learning experience for me I thought would make interesting conversation.
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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2014, 03:19:14 pm »


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