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[frank kayser]

Interesting.  The EB2001 Industrial -
GFCI protected
Neutral bonded to frame
Cannot be paralled with another similar gennie.


The rest looks like a standard EU2000i

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Interesting.  The EB2001 Industrial -
GFCI protected
Neutral bonded to frame
Cannot be paralled with another similar gennie.


The rest looks like a standard EU2000i

Here's the press release for the EB2000i:
http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=7442-en

This is obviously in response to changing regulations.  If I were in the market for a 2000w generator today, I would want to buy this one to stay ahead of the regs.

Important note - Honda has other EB-series units in larger sizes. These other EBs are not inverter-based, and not as quiet.  Hopefully Honda will update the rest of the EU series soon.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Honda is apparently refreshing their line, and they have a press release for a new EU7000is:
http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?g=power-equipment&id=7553-en

This replaces the EU6500, has fuel injection and other efficiency improvements.  I haven't found any information describing new reg compliance - the killer feature would be an on-gen way to bond N->G.

Here are some pictures: http://www.equipmentworld.com/efi-makes-hondas-new-eu7000is-portable-generator-more-fuel-efficient/  Interestingly, the duplex receptacle does not appear to be GFCI.

[frank kayser]

Here's the press release for the EB2000i:
http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=7442-en

This is obviously in response to changing regulations.  If I were in the market for a 2000w generator today, I would want to buy this one to stay ahead of the regs.

Important note - Honda has other EB-series units in larger sizes. These other EBs are not inverter-based, and not as quiet.  Hopefully Honda will update the rest of the EU series soon.

I was initially interested in this - what with the GFCI and all...
My bubble was quickly burst when I read it couldn't operate in parallel with either a EU2000i or another EB2000i
I guess there's a good reason - either regs, frame bonding, or something I do not understand that prevents that operational mode.


sigh...


frank

[Frank DeWitt]

I was initially interested in this - what with the GFCI and all...
My bubble was quickly burst when I read it couldn't operate in parallel with either a EU2000i or another EB2000i
I guess there's a good reason - either regs, frame bonding, or something I do not understand that prevents that operational mode.

sigh...

frank

I think it is probably has to do with the grounded frame.  Honda says this generator can not be connected to a home or construction site power system through a transfer switch because there would be two grounds. current could flow through building ground to the generator ground and false trip the GFCI

If there were two generators connected together then there would also be two grounds. and municipal paths for the common return.

BTW My 1947 Kohler is a grounded frame generator.

Here is a LOT of information.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?54949-Grounding-Honda-Generators-amp-GFCIs
http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=50236
http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html#anchorInverter%20Generators

I think I have just incapacitated Mike S until he finishes reading it. sorry.   

[frank kayser]

I think it is probably has to do with the grounded frame.  Honda says this generator can not be connected to a home or construction site power system through a transfer switch because there would be two grounds. current could flow through building ground to the generator ground and false trip the GFCI

If there were two generators connected together then there would also be two grounds. and municipal paths for the common return.

Interesting.  Begs a question (or two), though. 


Mike S has talked about in the RV forum about using a edison plug on a floating ground gennie that bonds neutral and ground in order to make it usable with some RV power panels that expect a bonded neutral to ground, and will not work without.  There are many RVs that are running two EU2000i in tandem in those situations. 


How would that be any different than running a EU2000i and a EB2000i industrial? (if one could)


I also have to ask (hypothetically) if one were to run two EB2000i gensets and bond the two grounds, would that solve the problem?
Or create others?
Which also leads to the question of if one were to bond the genset ground to the house ground, would that make the transfer switch usable and safe?


frank

[Frank DeWitt]

Interesting.  Begs a question (or two), though. 

Mike S has talked about in the RV forum about using a edison plug on a floating ground gennie that bonds neutral and ground in order to make it usable with some RV power panels that expect a bonded neutral to ground, and will not work without.  There are many RVs that are running two EU2000i in tandem in those situations. 


How would that be any different than running a EU2000i and a EB2000i industrial? (if one could)

I also have to ask (hypothetically) if one were to run two EB2000i gensets and bond the two grounds, would that solve the problem?
Or create others?
Which also leads to the question of if one were to bond the genset ground to the house ground, would that make the transfer switch usable and safe?

frank

I think it all revolves around the GFCI  or GFCIs

No GFCIs then generators can be tied together, and the neutral and ground can be tied together.  Install a GFCI at the generator grounded to the generator, then connect that generator to another generator and ground / neutral paths get interesting.  The question is, can current find a way back to either generator that bypasses the GFCI.  With two generators and bonded neutral the answer is yes.

If I was going to do it I would use two generators without GFCI and without a bonded neutral.  I would then go into a box with a GFCI and ground that box, or in the case of the RV, I mount mount the box in the RV and connect it's ground to the RV frame, skin, and to ground and leave the generators floating.

[Jonathan Johnson]

Honda says this generator can not be connected to a home or construction site power system through a transfer switch because there would be two grounds. current could flow through building ground to the generator ground and false trip the GFCI

Downstream of a GFCI, the neutral must remain unbonded. If there is a bond, such as you would have in a service panel connected through a transfer switch, the GFI would likely trip. If the genset was placed on an insulating pad with no other connection to ground, it might work... until you touch the frame and complete the circuit bypassing the GFI which would cause it to trip.

[frank kayser]

Here is a LOT of information.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?54949-Grounding-Honda-Generators-amp-GFCIs
http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=50236
http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html#anchorInverter%20Generators

I think I have just incapacitated Mike S until he finishes reading it. sorry.   

BTW, EXCELLENT links, Frank!  Thanks!!
frank

[Mike Sokol]

Downstream of a GFCI, the neutral must remain unbonded. If there is a bond, such as you would have in a service panel connected through a transfer switch, the GFI would likely trip. If the genset was placed on an insulating pad with no other connection to ground, it might work... until you touch the frame and complete the circuit bypassing the GFI which would cause it to trip.

Yup, that's the gist of it. Once the neutral and ground are connected together at two points, then the normal neutral current will be divided between those same neutral and ground wires. Since the GFCI is looking for as little a 5 mA of difference between the outgoing hot wire and the incoming neutral wire, then it will certainly trip with ANY load.

[ProSoundWeb Community]