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Author Topic: 4w from Riedel C44 AIO to Sony CCU and cameras can't talk to each other  (Read 5816 times)

Mike Kahrs

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I am on a Riedel Performer C44 system.  Besides the CR-4 user panels and C3 beltpacks, I am using the AIO to patch a 2-channel BTR-800 and Tempest 4-channel unit in 4-wire mode to the C44.  That uses six of my eight AIO.  I talked the EIC into switching his RTS 2w configured Sony CCUs to 4w, and I patched them in to AIO #7.  I am using a pair of XLR 1x5 to separate the analog 4w to the CCUs and combine the analog 4w from the CCUs

Everyone can talk to and listen to whomever I decide they can talk to and listen to, however, the cameras can not talk to each other, and on this particular event (live auction) they spot each other and need to communicate among themselves.

Any insight?

Thanks,

Mike Kahrs



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Mac Kerr

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I am on a Riedel Performer C44 system.  Besides the CR-4 user panels and C3 beltpacks, I am using the AIO to patch a 2-channel BTR-800 and Tempest 4-channel unit in 4-wire mode to the C44.  That uses six of my eight AIO.  I talked the EIC into switching his RTS 2w configured Sony CCUs to 4w, and I patched them in to AIO #7.  I am using a pair of XLR 1x5 to separate the analog 4w to the CCUs and combine the analog 4w from the CCUs

Everyone can talk to and listen to whomever I decide they can talk to and listen to, however, the cameras can not talk to each other, and on this particular event (live auction) they spot each other and need to communicate among themselves.

Any insight?

Thanks,

Mike Kahrs

I'm not sure you can just tie together all the talks and listens of the CCUs. You are probably ok with the listens if the C44 will drive the lower impedance, but the talks probably need to go through a mixer to make it a single talk bus.

Are the cameras on their own channel of the C44? How are channels assigned?

Mac
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Mike Kahrs

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I'm not sure you can just tie together all the talks and listens of the CCUs. You are probably ok with the listens if the C44 will drive the lower impedance, but the talks probably need to go through a mixer to make it a single talk bus.

Are the cameras on their own channel of the C44? How are channels assigned?

Mac
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Good point on the impedance.  The C44 can drive four CCUs (at least the cameramen are not saying they need more volume), but I am using a mixer as a line driver for the camera talk to bring the gain up.  Had I more time I'd have parked a small mixer on the engineering rack and taken the camera's sends separately, however I just used it as a line driver, and it works well enough.

As we only have one com channel when running 4w with these CCUs, they are, grouped together, taking the send and return of AIO7 on the C44.

I have the DPL section of the C44 matrix set up as Prod (A)/Audio (B), Prod (A)/Cameras (C), Prod (A)/Lights (D) and Cameras (C)/Lights (D).  The AIO section is ABCDABCD with the Tempest patched 4w to the first ABCD (AIO 1-4), the BTR patched to the second AB (AIO 5-6), the cameras patched to the second C (AIO 7), and the second D (AIO8) is unused.

I have reviewed the matrix on the AAS software to confirm "channels" are two-way.

Mike
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Pete Erskine

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I am using a pair of XLR 1x5 to separate the analog 4w to the CCUs and combine the analog 4w from the CCUs

You cannot "Y" 4 wire ports. There is no party line created. Either each 4-wire port must be on its own input of the C44 (and dip sw is set to 2) so all ports hear each other, or you need to use an external mixer (8X8) to create mic minuses for each 4-wire.

You didn't specify if you had a C44+.  This can be custom programmed for the cross points.  If you do you can program the CCU port to hear itself.  Side tone will be loud but all CCU will hear each other.


A regular C44 has only presets.  The dip sw 2 lets all ports hear themselves.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 12:49:38 pm by Pete Erskine »
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Mike Kahrs

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----------------
You cannot "Y" 4 wire ports. There is no party line created. Either each 4-wire port must be on its own input of the C44 (and dip sw is set to 2) so all ports hear each other, or you need to use an external mixer (8X8) to create mic minuses for each 4-wire.

You didn't specify if you had a C44+.  This can be custom programmed for the cross points.  If you do you can program the CCU port to hear itself.  Side tone will be loud but all CCU will hear each other.
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I had a suspicion I had not created a true camera Party Line, but was busy with other duties and didn't have enough brain left to ponder the situation and still keep making progress, especially as the video director could call cameras, so once I had the gain from the cameras to his liking I moved on, and by the time I could re-visit it we were in rehearsal then straight on to the show.

Your suggestion (Pete's) of an 8x8 mixer such as an XL-88 is interesting, however I really like running the BTR and Tempest 4w, which uses six of the eight AIO ports.  I had a pair of Clear-Com EF-701M so I could have run the BTR 2w and have four AIO ports available, but I wanted to run everything 4w.  Enclosed is my C44+ config - perhaps it will show what I missed.  The AES ports were unused on my event.  Thanks.
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Pete Erskine

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Your suggestion (Pete's) of an 8x8 mixer such as an XL-88 is interesting, however I really like running the BTR and Tempest 4w, which uses six of the eight AIO ports.  I had a pair of Clear-Com EF-701M so I could have run the BTR 2w and have four AIO ports available, but I wanted to run everything 4w.  Enclosed is my C44+ config - perhaps it will show what I missed.  The AES ports were unused on my event.  Thanks.

Assuming you have the Cam's connected to port 1a of the analog,  just connect it to itself.  Now all talkers on the Cams will hear each other, however you will get complaints from the talkers that their sidetone is too loud.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 12:03:49 am by Pete Erskine »
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Mike Kahrs

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Assuming you have the Cam's connected to port 1a of the analog,  just connect it to itself.  Now all talkers on the Cams will hear each other, however you will get complaints from the talkers that their sidetone is too loud.
That was too simple an explanation for me to have come up with it on show site.  Thanks.  I most always look for the complicated solution.

That's my lament as a freelancer - the video supplier doesn't have a Riedel in the shop, the audio company doesn't have a CCU to test, etc.  I have to sneak in my engineering education and testing during load-in and set-up time.  Anyway, thanks for the help.
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