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Author Topic: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall  (Read 10372 times)

Ben Harlan

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Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« on: February 13, 2014, 03:03:28 PM »

Hi guys,

I work for a summer camp that is building a gym/worship center and it's my responsibility to buy and install the sound system. It's a steel framed building that has drywall all the way around up to 12 feet, and on the S and E walls drywall up to 25 feet high. The idea is to have the band be on the west wall and the sound booth is already installed on the E wall. We're building our own snake due to cost reasons and the fact that our manager and myself are more than comfortable soldering connectors. We built the building with electricity high on the west wall so that we can use powered speakers and fly them from the frame.

Right now, I'm thinking that we will end up getting the new Mackie SRM 550s for the mains (I was thinking 4) and using the thump 12s as monitors. It's not going to be a fancy set up, but I'd like to get the best sound possible from what we can afford. I've already got the mixer and the snake cable thanks the wonderful folks at Sweetwater (their main facility is only 30 mins away, but they don't do on site consultations).

What I want to know is what kind of arrangement I should put the speakers in... I was thinking 2 closer to the center of the wall and then two about 12-15ft in from the corners. The acoustics are that of a gym, but We want to carpet some of the walls eventually and put in some other acoustic helps. Any suggestions on how where to put the speakers is appreciated. (the gym dimensions are 80x60 with the speakers on the long side.

Thanks in advance for any help!
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2014, 03:12:21 PM »

Hi guys,

I work for a summer camp that is building a gym/worship center and it's my responsibility to buy and install the sound system. It's a steel framed building that has drywall all the way around up to 12 feet, and on the S and E walls drywall up to 25 feet high. The idea is to have the band be on the west wall and the sound booth is already installed on the E wall. We're building our own snake due to cost reasons and the fact that our manager and myself are more than comfortable soldering connectors. We built the building with electricity high on the west wall so that we can use powered speakers and fly them from the frame.

Right now, I'm thinking that we will end up getting the new Mackie SRM 550s for the mains (I was thinking 4) and using the thump 12s as monitors. It's not going to be a fancy set up, but I'd like to get the best sound possible from what we can afford. I've already got the mixer and the snake cable thanks the wonderful folks at Sweetwater (their main facility is only 30 mins away, but they don't do on site consultations).

What I want to know is what kind of arrangement I should put the speakers in... I was thinking 2 closer to the center of the wall and then two about 12-15ft in from the corners. The acoustics are that of a gym, but We want to carpet some of the walls eventually and put in some other acoustic helps. Any suggestions on how where to put the speakers is appreciated. (the gym dimensions are 80x60 with the speakers on the long side.

Thanks in advance for any help!

I'd love to help, but we're not supposed to start in until you register under your real, full name like everyone else.  Until then...
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Ben Harlan

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Re: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2014, 03:35:56 PM »

I'd love to help, but we're not supposed to start in until you register under your real, full name like everyone else.  Until then...

my bad, I think I've fixed it now
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Re: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2014, 03:59:27 PM »

Hi guys,

I work for a summer camp that is building a gym/worship center and it's my responsibility to buy and install the sound system. It's a steel framed building that has drywall all the way around up to 12 feet, and on the S and E walls drywall up to 25 feet high. The idea is to have the band be on the west wall and the sound booth is already installed on the E wall. We're building our own snake due to cost reasons and the fact that our manager and myself are more than comfortable soldering connectors. We built the building with electricity high on the west wall so that we can use powered speakers and fly them from the frame.

Right now, I'm thinking that we will end up getting the new Mackie SRM 550s for the mains (I was thinking 4) and using the thump 12s as monitors. It's not going to be a fancy set up, but I'd like to get the best sound possible from what we can afford. I've already got the mixer and the snake cable thanks the wonderful folks at Sweetwater (their main facility is only 30 mins away, but they don't do on site consultations).

What I want to know is what kind of arrangement I should put the speakers in... I was thinking 2 closer to the center of the wall and then two about 12-15ft in from the corners. The acoustics are that of a gym, but We want to carpet some of the walls eventually and put in some other acoustic helps. Any suggestions on how where to put the speakers is appreciated. (the gym dimensions are 80x60 with the speakers on the long side.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Thanks for enabling replies.

A general over-view for you:

Minimize reflected sound, maximize direct sound.  This means aim your speakers such that they have as much of their coverage pattern as possible pointed directly at the listening area.  This usually means getting them up well above the heads of the listeners and tilting them down.  The benefit of this is keeping sound off of the ceiling and the walls as much as possible.  It also means that the distance to the listeners in front and to those in the rear is equalized to a certain extent.

Keep the number of your speakers as few as possible.  Each sound source (loudspeaker) puts out sound at a point in time.  The more speakers you have, the more time points you have.  Multiple time arrivals reduce sound clarity in the direct sound field and even more so once you get into the reverberative sound field.  (look up "critical distance" in sound field applications)

Multiple speakers are OK if your need is wider coverage.  If you're trying to get a higher sound level (SPL) doubling up the number of speakers will yield only a mere 3dB SPL increase...barely discernable to the listeners...but introduce "comb filtering" or interference patterns withing the range of audio frequencies reproduced, some cancelling, some reinforcing.  This produces less than desirable effects in the sound field. If you need more volume, you must purchase speakers capable of delivering higher SPL.  Don't be fooled by "watts".  They are merely an indication of electrical power handling and have little if anything to do with sound level output of loudspeakers.

That's a quick start.  Others will add/detract.  Please ask more questions as they come to you.

Good luck. 
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Ben Harlan

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Re: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 04:05:11 PM »

So, if I were to go with two speakers, what would be some recommendations? or is the four in this case acceptable?

The plan is to fly them at about 25-30ft and angle them down towards the seating area.

Thanks Dick Rees for your insight!
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Re: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 04:21:35 PM »

So, if I were to go with two speakers, what would be some recommendations? or is the four in this case acceptable?

The plan is to fly them at about 25-30ft and angle them down towards the seating area.

Thanks Dick Rees for your insight!

Ben...

Step two:

The nominal coverage pattern of your common loudspeakers will be given as horizontal x vertical:  90 x 60, 75 degree conical, etc. 

The two most common types of speakers will be front-loaded and horn-loaded.  Horns are "guides" which provide some directionality to the sound emitted through them.  Front-loaded speakers like the ones you referenced have their "pattern" in degrees of coverage cited for the HF drivers coupled with their horns (sometimes molded into the "plastic" cabinets).  Such directivity is effective on that portion of the sound which has wave lengths amenable to control by the horn.  In other words, the frequency down to which the control is applicable is dependent on horn size. 

Horn-loaded cabinets include one or more sets of "direction-enhancers/control" in addition to the HF horn, thereby extending the control of directivity to a point lower in the range of sound from the speaker.  Of course, this means a larger, heavier cabinet...but that's the price of control in this instance.

More precise dimensional measurements need to be provided before any recommendation for specific speakers can honestly be made.  I imagine you get the picture.  In fact, giving us a picture, pictures or drawings with all the proposed  measurements will be enormously helpful.  As will an outline of the type of music you will reinforce and your sound level expectations.

Cheers.
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Ben Harlan

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Re: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 04:48:18 PM »

More precise dimensional measurements need to be provided before any recommendation for specific speakers can honestly be made.  I imagine you get the picture.  In fact, giving us a picture, pictures or drawings with all the proposed  measurements will be enormously helpful.  As will an outline of the type of music you will reinforce and your sound level expectations.

Cheers.

This is the best I can do for a drawing of the building. I'm obviously talking about the big gym area for this. It's 80x60 the peak of the roof is about 40ft and the top of the walls is 25 feet. the ceiling doesn't have any panneling, it's simply the insulation and cross-ties that connect the steal frame.

as for music, it will essentially be varying levels of worship music... for the summer camp, it's music for kids and youth so it's simply louder because it can be. For the sunday morning worship, it's a bit more on the mellow side, more interested in dynamics rather than being loud. Not planning on having any choirs or heavy metal bands in.

As to the speakers, is that 90x50 coverage field decent and if so, would I what angle would we want to fly them at? I like that those speakers seem heavy duty yet can won't be too heavy to fly from the frame of the building.
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Re: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 04:59:20 PM »

This is the best I can do for a drawing of the building. I'm obviously talking about the big gym area for this. It's 80x60 the peak of the roof is about 40ft and the top of the walls is 25 feet. the ceiling doesn't have any panneling, it's simply the insulation and cross-ties that connect the steal frame.

as for music, it will essentially be varying levels of worship music... for the summer camp, it's music for kids and youth so it's simply louder because it can be. For the sunday morning worship, it's a bit more on the mellow side, more interested in dynamics rather than being loud. Not planning on having any choirs or heavy metal bands in.

As to the speakers, is that 90x50 coverage field decent and if so, would I what angle would we want to fly them at? I like that those speakers seem heavy duty yet can won't be too heavy to fly from the frame of the building.

You are in luck in that the speakers you are considering have integral fly-points engineered into them.  This means that can be flown as designed PROVIDING whoever does the flying is licensed, bonded and insured to do such work.  You cannot really DIY in this case as it will very likely negate any liability insurance you carry.  Flying things over peoples heads is SERIOUS BUSINESS and should not be done by  well-meaning, cost-concious folk.  It's just not the responsible thing to do.

That said, you can simply make drawings of the space you want to cover and use some "cut-outs", a pair of 90 degree ones for the horizontal plane and a pair of 60 degree ones for the vertical plane, lay one on the other and then use a protractor to measure the angle derived once you optimize the coverage prediction with your cut-outs.  Again, place them such that as much as possible of the "pattern" of the speakers covers the listening  area and as little as possible bleeds onto any reflective surfaces...not matter how far away they may be.

I think that's it for me.  Except to say that the "Thumps" are not worth purchasing...for any use.
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Ben Harlan

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Re: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 05:20:28 PM »

first of all, my grammar was absolutely terrible in that last post, apologies...

Dick, thanks for your insight and your help with this. I really appreciate it. Last thing, if the thumps suck, what would you recommend for monitors that would be in the same price range?
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 09:15:15 PM »

Alto sxm112a.  A great little cheap monitor speaker.  http://www.planetdj.com/i--SXM112A&?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=product%20ads&utm_content=googlebase

For your budget - this is a way to go. 

I think with the volume you are looking for will be at the edge of what your main speakers can do.  That said, if you can't afford more...  Although the JbL prx612 if you can find a pair are close in price and will probably sound better than the mackie
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Re: Sound System set up in a Gym/Worship Hall
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 09:15:15 PM »


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