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[Geoff Doane]

I'm trying to understand (grok) the capabilities of the Dante networking as it applies to Yamaha's CL consoles and RIO stage boxes (and possibly a JoeCo recorder if anybody has experience with that).  I've downloaded the CL offline editor, and have found the input patching options (64 Dante channels, Slot I/O, Omni I/O, etc.).  What is unclear to me is the difference (if there is one) between Dante inputs and outputs.  Are there 64 inputs and 64 outputs, or are there only 64 Dante channels, split between inputs and outputs?

For instance, with two RIO3224 boxes on stage, can you get 64 inputs into the console (assuming CL3 or CL5), and still get 48 channels back to the stage?

I know I can get another 48 inputs and outputs on the expansion slots, but I'd like to try and make full use of the Dante capabilities before I have to resort to that.

Geoff

[Tim McCulloch]

I'm trying to understand (grok) the capabilities of the Dante networking as it applies to Yamaha's CL consoles and RIO stage boxes (and possibly a JoeCo recorder if anybody has experience with that).  I've downloaded the CL offline editor, and have found the input patching options (64 Dante channels, Slot I/O, Omni I/O, etc.).  What is unclear to me is the difference (if there is one) between Dante inputs and outputs.  Are there 64 inputs and 64 outputs, or are there only 64 Dante channels, split between inputs and outputs?

For instance, with two RIO3224 boxes on stage, can you get 64 inputs into the console (assuming CL3 or CL5), and still get 48 channels back to the stage?

I know I can get another 48 inputs and outputs on the expansion slots, but I'd like to try and make full use of the Dante capabilities before I have to resort to that.

Geoff

Start here:  http://www.audinate.com/index.php  48x48 over 100mbps networks, 512x512 over gigabit nets @ 24 bits, 48kHz.  Half capacity if at 96kHz.

And IIRC Yamaha's implementation of Dante is discussed in the manuals for the Rio boxes and the CL mixers.

[Mac Kerr]

I'm trying to understand (grok) the capabilities of the Dante networking as it applies to Yamaha's CL consoles and RIO stage boxes (and possibly a JoeCo recorder if anybody has experience with that).  I've downloaded the CL offline editor, and have found the input patching options (64 Dante channels, Slot I/O, Omni I/O, etc.).  What is unclear to me is the difference (if there is one) between Dante inputs and outputs.  Are there 64 inputs and 64 outputs, or are there only 64 Dante channels, split between inputs and outputs?

For instance, with two RIO3224 boxes on stage, can you get 64 inputs into the console (assuming CL3 or CL5), and still get 48 channels back to the stage?

I know I can get another 48 inputs and outputs on the expansion slots, but I'd like to try and make full use of the Dante capabilities before I have to resort to that.

Geoff

The Dante port on the CL series of console supports 64 in and 64 out. You may find it easier to patch the 64x64 Dante channels to and from the Rio boxes with Dante Controller. I find the process via the console controls kind of non-intuitive. In Dante Controller all the ins and outs appear in a crosspoint matrix, and you connect the console I/O to the Rio I/O as you want.

The Dante network supports up the 512x512 channels, but the console port is 64x64, and the MY slots are 16x16 if you have Dante cards in them.

With Dante Controller, it is also pretty straight forward to connect to other devices like the JoeCo recorder, or a DAW using the Dante Virtual Soundcard.

Mac

[Jonathan Kok]

The Dante port on the CL series of console supports 64 in and 64 out. You may find it easier to patch the 64x64 Dante channels to and from the Rio boxes with Dante Controller. I find the process via the console controls kind of non-intuitive. In Dante Controller all the ins and outs appear in a crosspoint matrix, and you connect the console I/O to the Rio I/O as you want.

The Dante network supports up the 512x512 channels, but the console port is 64x64, and the MY slots are 16x16 if you have Dante cards in them.

With Dante Controller, it is also pretty straight forward to connect to other devices like the JoeCo recorder, or a DAW using the Dante Virtual Soundcard.

Mac

So, my understanding then is you could get the full 72 mono and 8 stereo inputs of the CL5, all over Dante, assuming you've added 2x MY16-AUD cards? How would Head Amp control work for those connected via the MY16 cards? I noticed the console can control up to 256 HA's; I assume then there's a HA control page somewhere? Or is it limited to controlling only the HA of the channels it's currently configured for (and if so, how would the MY16 inputs apply)?

[Riley Casey]

What he said … in spades.  I tell my crews to avoid the Dante patch screens in the console display entirely, too much chance of getting lost in the woods.  The Dante computer software rendition of the concept is entirely in line with the Yamaha Studio Manager version of the cross patch since the PM5D, fast and easy.  This is particularly valuable if you are running multiple boxes in multiple locations with noncontiguous patches.

 Also, unless Yamaha has stopped offering this the CL5 comes with a USB key and download link for a copy of Nuendo Live.  That along with the free copy of Dante Virtual Sound card will get you the entire Dante stream into the Ethernet port of the MAc or PC du jour for recording along with the very slick trick of auto naming the tracks based on the console channel names. JoeCo need not apply.

You may find it easier to patch the 64x64 Dante channels to and from the Rio boxes with Dante Controller. I find the process via the console controls kind of non-intuitive. In Dante Controller all the ins and outs appear in a crosspoint matrix, and you connect the console I/O to the Rio I/O as you want.


Mac

[Rick Earl]

Mac and Riley have it right.   I used mixed brands with Dante and Dante controller is a breeze to use.  I struggled a bit with the CL interface because it was not as straightforward as the Dante.   

[Justice C. Bigler]

So, my understanding then is you could get the full 72 mono and 8 stereo inputs of the CL5, all over Dante..

That is not correct. The Dante connection on the CL5 is limited to 64 inputs and 64 outputs. The CL5 supports 72 inputs and 8 stereo inputs, which are counted as the on board 8XLR inputs and the 8 stereo effects engines included on the CL5 console itself.

You can't use unused Dante output ports as extra input ports.

[Geoff Doane]

Thanks for the pointers everyone.

I had downloaded the manuals, as well as CL editor, but it's all a bit vague about mapping audio I/O to Dante channels.  Dante Controller would probably help me understand, but it appears to need some actual hardware in order to run it.  There's no demo mode.  The manual did provide a few clues however.

The bottom line though is, that with only 64 channels in and out on the standard Dante port of a CL, I'm limited to 32 channels if I want all the stage inputs on a RIO box and want to be able to do a virtual soundcheck on whatever is used as a recorder (32 inputs and 32 outputs back to the console.  If I don't care about the virtual soundcheck, I could have 64 channels from 2 boxes multi-casted to the console and the recorder, as well as anything that needed to go back to the stage.  At least I think that is the best I can squeeze out of this.

How did you come up with 256 possible HAs to control, Jonathon?  I count 64 Dante, 8 omnis, and 48 more in the slots that could possibly have gain control, but that's only 120.

GTD

[Scott Helmke]

So, my understanding then is you could get the full 72 mono and 8 stereo inputs of the CL5, all over Dante, assuming you've added 2x MY16-AUD cards? How would Head Amp control work for those connected via the MY16 cards? I noticed the console can control up to 256 HA's; I assume then there's a HA control page somewhere? Or is it limited to controlling only the HA of the channels it's currently configured for (and if so, how would the MY16 inputs apply)?

Yes, with additional cards you can get more Dante channels into the mixer. Truth be told I'm not sure about the head amp control either, other than to mention that a Rio has to be in AD8HR mode to be controlled by one of those MY-AUD cards. So that's a basic incompatibility, though just today Yamaha announced a computer-based head amp control for the Rio racks. Inconvenient but possible.

Regarding virtual soundcheck - there should be a couple ways to do that easily. One is to save presets in the Dante Controller software. That should make it possible to swap a completely different set of inputs in from different Dante transmitters. Another way might be to use show files on the CL5 with all the Dante patching enabled.

What takes a little getting used to on the Dante/CL5 thing is that you are sort of assigning channels on a snake - so to send mix bus outputs from the CL5 to physical outputs on a Rio, you have to patch outputs to Dante channels (going out) on the CL5, but also patch the Dante channels (as they come into the Rio) to outputs within the Rio. By default the Dante inputs (receivers) on a CL are patched 1:1 to the input processing channels. Outputs have a somewhat different map to the outgoing Dante channels, and there's a screen in the CL Dante patching that shows all that.

[Chris Johnson [UK]]

The bottom line though is, that with only 64 channels in and out on the standard Dante port of a CL, I'm limited to 32 channels if I want all the stage inputs on a RIO box and want to be able to do a virtual soundcheck on whatever is used as a recorder (32 inputs and 32 outputs back to the console.  If I don't care about the virtual soundcheck, I could have 64 channels from 2 boxes multi-casted to the console and the recorder, as well as anything that needed to go back to the stage.  At least I think that is the best I can squeeze out of this.

What your missing is the fact that Dante patches can be recalled in Dante controller.

So you could have 64 Rio input Channels (2 * 3224) patched to your 64 Dante inputs on the CL console. Then, in Dante controller you can save that patch.
Then you can patch the 64 outputs of your JoeCo BBR or Computer with DVS into the 64 CL inputs and save that patch.
Then you can simply recall them as need be.

Obviously this is not ideal for doing during a show, but its fine for virtual soundcheck use.

I've also done some things where we've had a CL5, 2 stages with 48ch from each (2 bands) and then 16ch of playback and MC mics fed into the console via local Omnis and slot card inputs. In the 15 mins between bands I can recall a Dante patch to patch the 2nd stage in place of the 1st stage to the CL Dante inputs. Then I hit a snapshot on the CL to recall the settings for those channels and hey presto, we've done a festival-style flip-flop patch without actually unplugging a single cable.

[ProSoundWeb Community]