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Author Topic: HDMI issues...  (Read 7826 times)

Tommy Peel

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HDMI issues...
« on: January 31, 2014, 09:29:54 pm »

So I help out(mix FOH) in the youth room at a local church that my friend is a youth minister at. Anyway at youth tonight one of the 70 inch Sharp TVs we use for lyrics/videos has stopped passing video from it's HDMI inputs. I think something had physically failed in the TV as I bypassed all the cable in the ceiling and plugged my laptop(MacBook Pro with mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter) directly into the TVs HDMI inputs and didn't get any signal.

Anyway the normal signal flow is an iMac with mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter to a 4-way HDMI splitter which feeds 2 TVs beside the stage with ~50ft cables to each and a 3rd TV at FOH for people on stage to see.

Any ideas? Can the HDMI inputs fail on a TV leaving the other inputs working (I tested the VGA and it's fine)?

Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro

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Ryan C. Davis

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 10:50:13 pm »

Yes. They can. They all get scaled and processed differently.

You've bypassed all of the signal chain and tried a known working source to test it. I think it's got to be the TV.

Can you go through the menus at all? You could try a factory default and a firmware update but I'd guess its toast.

If it's under warranty then sharp will send someone out to fix it. If not, I would bet good money that the repair would be worth the money.
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Tommy Peel

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 10:56:41 pm »

Yes. They can. They all get scaled and processed differently.

You've bypassed all of the signal chain and tried a known working source to test it. I think it's got to be the TV.

Can you go through the menus at all? You could try a factory default and a firmware update but I'd guess its toast.

If it's under warranty then sharp will send someone out to fix it. If not, I would bet good money that the repair would be worth the money.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking too. I took my laptop with the HDMI adapter and a short  cable and it wouldn't work, I then I took the laptop rig to the other TV and it worked fine. Also the problem TV's menus and VGA input ate working fine.

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Lee Douglas

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2014, 01:21:08 pm »

One of the sets in house routinely has it's HDMI inputs lock up and fails to produce a picture.  Unplugging the monitor as well as the sources from power for a few minutes, resulting in a basic reset, generally brings it back around.  I usually also have to reset various menu parameters as well.  It won't cost you anything to try.  If it continues to happen, you'll need to weigh the PITA/reliability factor verses repair or replacing.
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Tommy Peel

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2014, 02:02:19 pm »

One of the sets in house routinely has it's HDMI inputs lock up and fails to produce a picture.  Unplugging the monitor as well as the sources from power for a few minutes, resulting in a basic reset, generally brings it back around.  I usually also have to reset various menu parameters as well.  It won't cost you anything to try.  If it continues to happen, you'll need to weigh the PITA/reliability factor verses repair or replacing.

Thanks for the suggestion, I passed it on to one of the youth ministers at the church so he can try it Sunday before the youth service that night.

Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro

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Robert Sims

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2014, 04:04:28 pm »

I'm curious, did anything change or is any part new to the setup? MacBook Pro? 70" ? Splitter?
Did you figure out the problem. My first thought is you could be having an HDCP issue. The newer Macs have HDCP built in to their hardware, so their outputs are always looking for an HDCP compliant device. I'm not sure how many HDCP keys the Mac will issue but if it's less than the monitors you are trying to drive it will shut down the video outputs from the Mac. If it has enough keys you're ok as long as nothing in the signal chain strips the HDCP handshake. Some video switchers don't pass HDCP. Some twisted pair and splitters don't. You might try plugging in each display one at a time, it could be getting hit with key request at the same time. Sort of like 2 devices with the same IP address.


So I help out(mix FOH) in the youth room at a local church that my friend is a youth minister at. Anyway at youth tonight one of the 70 inch Sharp TVs we use for lyrics/videos has stopped passing video from it's HDMI inputs. I think something had physically failed in the TV as I bypassed all the cable in the ceiling and plugged my laptop(MacBook Pro with mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter) directly into the TVs HDMI inputs and didn't get any signal.

Anyway the normal signal flow is an iMac with mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter to a 4-way HDMI splitter which feeds 2 TVs beside the stage with ~50ft cables to each and a 3rd TV at FOH for people on stage to see.

Any ideas? Can the HDMI inputs fail on a TV leaving the other inputs working (I tested the VGA and it's fine)?

Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro
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Tommy Peel

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2014, 04:13:22 pm »

I'm curious, did anything change or is any part new to the setup? MacBook Pro? 70" ? Splitter?
Did you figure out the problem. My first thought is you could be having an HDCP issue. The newer Macs have HDCP built in to their hardware, so their outputs are always looking for an HDCP compliant device. I'm not sure how many HDCP keys the Mac will issue but if it's less than the monitors you are trying to drive it will shut down the video outputs from the Mac. If it has enough keys you're ok as long as nothing in the signal chain strips the HDCP handshake. Some video switchers don't pass HDCP. Some twisted pair and splitters don't. You might try plugging in each display one at a time, it could be getting hit with key request at the same time. Sort of like 2 devices with the same IP address.

I think that the youth director did a factory reset of the TV and it started working with the existing splitter and cables. I'm pretty sure we still have some issues with the cables and/or splitter though as we get some intermittent cut outs on one TV or another. I think they plan to pull all the cable and the splitter and replace it all in the future. They'll probably do it along with some other A/V upgrades/additions they have planned for this year.

Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro

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Mike Caldwell

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2014, 12:29:38 am »

50 foot is pushing the limits for reliable direct HDMI operation.

Tommy Peel

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2014, 01:30:10 am »

50 foot is pushing the limits for reliable direct HDMI operation.

Not doubting your experience here, but I helped with an install at another church where we used a 75ft HDMI run. So far there's been no problems and they're running at 1080p. The 75ft cable runs from FOH to a splitter behind one TV where it splits to the 2 TVs. I know Monoprice sells 100ft HDMI cables too which apparently work according to the many decent reviews they have.

Anyway that's been my experience, currently the setup this thread is about has been working fine though the splitter at FOH is a little unreliable.

Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro

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Brad Weber

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2014, 09:16:48 am »

Not doubting your experience here, but I helped with an install at another church where we used a 75ft HDMI run. So far there's been no problems and they're running at 1080p. The 75ft cable runs from FOH to a splitter behind one TV where it splits to the 2 TVs. I know Monoprice sells 100ft HDMI cables too which apparently work according to the many decent reviews they have.
One possible factor in how well it works may be whether it is an active or passive cable, Monorpice sells both.
 
What concerns me in commercial applications how many times longer cables may be run through paths that might require in-wall, riser or even plenum rated cable, for example above a drop acoustical tile ceiling where the area above the ceiling is used for return air and thus is a plenum space.  Because they sell direct to consumers and most of their sales are for residential applications, many of the cables monoprice sels are CL2 rated for in-wall installation but few are CMR, CMP or similar rated for riser or plenum applications.
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Tommy Peel

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2014, 12:04:14 pm »

One possible factor in how well it works may be whether it is an active or passive cable, Monorpice sells both.
 
What concerns me in commercial applications how many times longer cables may be run through paths that might require in-wall, riser or even plenum rated cable, for example above a drop acoustical tile ceiling where the area above the ceiling is used for return air and thus is a plenum space.  Because they sell direct to consumers and most of their sales are for residential applications, many of the cables monoprice sels are CL2 rated for in-wall installation but few are CMR, CMP or similar rated for riser or plenum applications.

I'm pretty sure the cable used in the 75ft install was an active cable. I also know in that install the drop ceiling was not a plenum space. The air returns were handled through grates that passed through the walls of the room into the hall. The cable used was CL2 rated.

As for the setup in the OP I don't know what cable was used, how it was installed, etc... When I started helping with sound(and some video/lights) in this youth room everything was already installed and had been for some time. I also haven't messed with any of it other than unplug and plug it in occasionally on both ends.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2014, 12:54:27 pm »

The HDMI system I somehow got involved in trouble shooting was using 50 foot passive cables with active extender modules. That run did work connected directly to a TV, when connected to a splitter only a couple TV's even tried to lock on to the signal. Trying every possible combination of the active extenders did not help.
From what I had read a 50 foot passive HDMI cable is about it for operating length, assuming it's a decent quality cable.

Personally I think HDMI was never intended to be used in a professional video environment such as long distance distribution, switching, ect. but out of demand was forced to become a pro format or at least try to act like one.

Tommy Peel

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2014, 12:58:23 pm »

Personally I think HDMI was never intended to be used in a professional video environment such as long distance distribution, switching, ect. but out of demand was forced to become a pro format or at least try to act like one.
I couldn't agree more...  It's generally a PITA in professional situations but you have to use it because of HDCP and it's what most devices use for I/O.

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Mike Caldwell

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2014, 01:17:01 pm »

I couldn't agree more...  It's generally a PITA in professional situations but you have to use it because of HDCP and it's what most devices use for I/O.

Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro

At the very least for distribution of any distance as soon as you get away from the HDMI format the better off you'll be. Something like a: good baling system, HD-SDI, HD modulators. If your going to multiple HD TV's the modulator system would be about the easiest unless your putting it on a in house cable TV system then your going to need some RF channel traps and filters.

Jonathan Johnson

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2014, 02:16:38 am »

This may be irrelevant...

I had a PC (with an Intel video chip) connected to a Sharp TV via HDMI. I could not get the PC to see the TV as an available display -- sort of. When I reinstalled the video driver on the PC, the TV showed up and I was able to pass an image to it. Until I rebooted, after which the TV was not seen by the PC (until I reinstalled the driver, which worked until I rebooted. Rinse, lather, repeat.).

It turns out the problem was with the cable -- StarTech brand; only 2 meters. Switched to an IOGear cable (same length) and had absolutely no problems. The StarTech cable worked fine with other devices connected to the same TV.
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2014, 11:25:56 am »

One possible factor in how well it works may be whether it is an active or passive cable, Monorpice sells both.
 
What concerns me in commercial applications how many times longer cables may be run through paths that might require in-wall, riser or even plenum rated cable, for example above a drop acoustical tile ceiling where the area above the ceiling is used for return air and thus is a plenum space.  Because they sell direct to consumers and most of their sales are for residential applications, many of the cables monoprice sels are CL2 rated for in-wall installation but few are CMR, CMP or similar rated for riser or plenum applications.

I find that there is a lot of prejudice against HDMI especially among people who have had good luck with "More professional" cabling formats like SDI. It is not all ill-founded because doing 25+ feet over HDMI does take a little care. But SDI on a budget doesn't seem much like a reality these days.

Like you I've had good luck with Monoprice's heavier  HDMI cables over distances like 25, 35, and even 50 feet. I do have to admit that the cables look and feel more like garden hoses than video cables. The costs are not what I feel is prohibitive.  The laws of physics suggest that the technique of using larger cable diameters and more copper per foot can be stretched quite a ways. My experience is that within a meeting room with less than 300 seats cabling distances are generally less than 100 feet. YMMV.
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Rob Spence

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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2014, 01:20:15 pm »

I no longer remember where I got it, (bought through Amazon) but I have a125' amplified HDMI cable. It has a lump 2/3 the way down and a USB tail at the source end to power the amp. Works well for me.

I also use the Geffen HDMI detective plus (also the DVI version) on inputs to a switch so the source always thinks the projector (or display) is connected.


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Re: HDMI issues...
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2014, 01:20:15 pm »


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