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Author Topic: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.  (Read 21165 times)

frank kayser

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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2014, 07:12:30 pm »

Such as might occur in a low-light or colored-light situation. Under green lights, red and black will be difficult to distinguish, as will green and white. Under red light, it's green/black and red/white -- a potentially more dangerous mixup. Under other colors, it could be any kind of mixup. Bottom line:  only make connections under white light that is sufficient to do the job safely.

That does beg the question - why can a red lead be plugged into a white socket?
Why can't the cams be keyed such that the one color plug fits into only its respective colored socket?
Or at least use a molded in identification ring as being done aboard ship? somewhere earlier in the thread

I know there is a huge installed base, and it is easy for the manufactures of the cams to have one mold, and just swap out the plastic colors in the injection molding machine.

I have heard that (please correct me) the genders on the safety ground and neutral are sometimes changed so as to prevent the ground neutral miswiring.

 
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Rob Spence

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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2014, 07:14:15 pm »

Mostly hotels, but some venues, will utilize a specific wall outlet type (l5-15 or -20 are common), requiring renters to get the right adapter from the venue. By this method, the venue knows if you are using their power, and charges accordingly.

Even if there is no strange adapter, hotels will often charge for cam access. Another source of revenue, as it will make the general room charge seem smaller?

Ray
Around here I see 14-60 connectors in ballroom kick plates. They use them for the distros they rent to you.  I have my own :-)


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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2014, 08:21:12 pm »

That does beg the question - why can a red lead be plugged into a white socket?
Why can't the cams be keyed such that the one color plug fits into only its respective colored socket?
Or at least use a molded in identification ring as being done aboard ship? somewhere earlier in the thread

I know there is a huge installed base, and it is easy for the manufactures of the cams to have one mold, and just swap out the plastic colors in the injection molding machine.

I have heard that (please correct me) the genders on the safety ground and neutral are sometimes changed so as to prevent the ground neutral miswiring.

The keyed version of CamLocks are called Posi-Locks and are nearly universally ignored in the touring entertainment world, at least on the load side of the switch.  Our county's arena has them and had to make up adapters to conventional e1016 Cams.  The only folks that seem to use them in touring are the generator suppliers, and then predominantly of the 480v side.

Although not required by NEC itself, the reversed gender of Ground (earth) and Neutral (grounded, current-carrying conductor) is required in some jurisdictions.  Mechanical interlocks, keyed connectors, reversed genders, or simply posting the required connection order on each panel or device equipped with single pole separable connectors are all permitted by the NEC and considered compliant.  Note that individual jurisdictions (city, county, state) are free to adopt, ignore, or modify the NEC as they see fit.
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frank kayser

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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2014, 08:59:25 pm »

The keyed version of CamLocks are called Posi-Locks and are nearly universally ignored in the touring entertainment world, at least on the load side of the switch.  Our county's arena has them and had to make up adapters to conventional e1016 Cams.  The only folks that seem to use them in touring are the generator suppliers, and then predominantly of the 480v side.

I guess the Posi-Locks are considered a solution looking for a problem.  I suspect they would be more popular and catch on if they were backwards compatible with the CamLocks.

Dang. Another "original idea" of mine tried and rejected.  Yeah.  Right.
frank
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2014, 08:41:21 am »

Around here I see 14-60 connectors in ballroom kick plates. They use them for the distros they rent to you.  I have my own :-)


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Me too.  :)

There's one hotel in the city that uses a 15-60 (3-phase with no neutral, so N-G bond in the distro panel), and MANY hotels doing some version of way-overloaded breakout distros - 100A on #4 wire, etc.  Loads of fun.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2014, 08:42:43 am »

I guess the Posi-Locks are considered a solution looking for a problem.  I suspect they would be more popular and catch on if they were backwards compatible with the CamLocks.

If they were backwards compatible with cams, what would be the point ??
You would negate the safety aspect of the Posi-Locks.
note - I have not seen a Posi-Lock in the wild, only at the electrical supplier.
note2 - I don't get around as much as I used to....
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frank kayser

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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2014, 09:29:48 am »

If they were backwards compatible with cams, what would be the point ??
You would negate the safety aspect of the Posi-Locks.
note - I have not seen a Posi-Lock in the wild, only at the electrical supplier.
note2 - I don't get around as much as I used to....

My thought of PosiLocks backward compatable - I agree - at first there would be no benefit.  But if the NEC were to "suggest" that all new panel installations or upgrades use the new connector, then there would be a gradual replacement of all the cable-installed CamLocks (rather than a large, immediate,expensive changeover).  In a couple years, all stuff will have gone through a life cycle, and replaced with the keyed connectors.

As it stands, they are nothing more than a pain for which Tim and others have to make adapters for the very few installations found.  Unlikely you will see many in the wild unless mandated by code, which will be strongly resisted because of the cost of changeover.  Tim mentioned he has only seen them occasionally in his county, and they seem to have caught on with the gen set crowd on the 480v side. 

I could see where the gen set folks would use them - less mistakes by lesser qualified "installers", and many times they also provide their own distro.  The gen sets and cable sets are turned over surely more often than folks rewire installed panels.  An attempt to make things idiot resistant.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2014, 12:36:48 pm »

In a couple years, all stuff will have gone through a life cycle, and replaced with the keyed connectors.
You're kidding, right ??
Life Cycle on a cam is much longer than a couple of years. I think I bought my first set around 1980.
I am the only one that handles them, and all they need is a little yearly cleanup/checkup.
I have seen some pretty questionable "company switches" over the years, but with a little extra twist or 2, the cams have held just fine.
No, you're right. Mandated change is the only way to weed out the old shit, without taking the next 25 years....
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Tom Bourke

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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2014, 01:16:00 pm »

Me too.  :)

There's one hotel in the city that uses a 15-60 (3-phase with no neutral, so N-G bond in the distro panel), and MANY hotels doing some version of way-overloaded breakout distros - 100A on #4 wire, etc.  Loads of fun.
I have also seen 3 phase plugs wired like the single phase counterpart.  Anything to keep you from using it with out paying the piper.
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Chris Clark

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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2014, 04:31:47 pm »

I have heard that (please correct me) the genders on the safety ground and neutral are sometimes changed so as to prevent the ground neutral miswiring.
That is true:
When I was working for a now-defunct production company in the area, our 2/0 and 4/0 feeder looms (5 cables taped together, let me tell you that was fun running across a hotel!) which used cams had the green/white reversed at all times. This matched our power distros which were setup the same way, and the pigtails which were used for tie-in when necessary were also typically in sets of this configuration. The problem was that when using a genny for productions, or existing tie-ins already at some locations, we typically had to have turnarounds (sometimes known as gender benders) for them. But even with that, it helped immensely to ensure that the possibility of messing up the neutral/ground with one of the hot legs was kept to a minimum. Not to mention it was policy that any wiring of that nature was double or sometimes triple checked by others, typically the gig boss and/or the lead sound or lighting guy (one of which was usually the gig boss anyway), both of whom had final say before any switches were thrown or generators powered up. As a hired hand, if you violated this (powered up the genny on your own before checking with the gig boss, for example, which happened once) you were pretty much thrown off the site. Only the gig boss or leads were allowed to meter the power at the disconnect/genny, throw on the disconnect after checking that the distro power was off, meter the power at the distro, and then turn on the distros, and again this was after it had been checked by them visually. Sometimes the procedures seem long and drawn out, but they work.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 04:35:09 pm by Chris Clark »
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Re: Just a reminder to check the power at your distro as well as the wall.
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2014, 04:31:47 pm »


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