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Author Topic: Socapex speaker runs  (Read 12153 times)

Taylor Holden

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Socapex speaker runs
« on: January 21, 2014, 09:42:43 pm »

So I have a small pa setup for small gigs back at home. I was trying to rebuild it and would like to run socapex with a NL4 setup. Im using 4  (2 per side) JBL MRX 525 and 4 JBL MRX 528S. I will be running crown xti amplifiers to power this (mostly because I'm still running off wall power for this setup.) Now my question is I would like to put a panel mount connection for the socapex and so on this way I get to the venue roll in my amp rack and connect the two socapex runs and fan outs and plug in and go. 1 would there be any issues with this? 2 does the socapex cable/ connector ground to the connector itself or is it isolated?

I did search but came up with no information.

Thanks ahead of time!!!

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Ricky Lighthall

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2014, 09:52:49 pm »

It does not ground to the connector.  Make sure you do not get Socapex meant for lighting which has a shorting ring connecting all the ground pins.  You obviously want a 1 to 1 connection on all pins.
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2014, 09:58:36 pm »

Why not just use NL8.  That would give you what you need.  I assume you are running the tops passive (not biamped) so you would get a separate feed to each box with the right conductors and it us a lot less weight than Soco.  You can make a short squid that is NL8 to four NL4s and use a coupler to connect them so that you won't lose the versatility of the NL8 cable.
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Steven Barnes

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2014, 11:44:15 pm »

If you aren't dead set on buying all new cable, why not just build looms out of the current NL4 you have now? It will still essentially be one cable per side, but it is much cheaper and more flexible for future applications.
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Tom Bourke

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2014, 12:07:59 am »

Don't use SOCA for speakers!  I just now got home from a gig where a helpful stage hand or audio guy connected to a random "extra" SOCA on the truss.  Fortunately we caught it before powering up the 208V moving light distro and 120V dimmers.  We were very close to frying some speakers. 
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2014, 01:10:15 am »

I see socapex runs for speakers on touring Broadway shows all the time.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2014, 01:28:24 am »

So I have a small pa setup for small gigs back at home. I was trying to rebuild it and would like to run socapex with a NL4 setup. Im using 4  (2 per side) JBL MRX 525 and 4 JBL MRX 528S. I will be running crown xti amplifiers to power this (mostly because I'm still running off wall power for this setup.) Now my question is I would like to put a panel mount connection for the socapex and so on this way I get to the venue roll in my amp rack and connect the two socapex runs and fan outs and plug in and go. 1 would there be any issues with this? 2 does the socapex cable/ connector ground to the connector itself or is it isolated?

I did search but came up with no information.

Thanks ahead of time!!!

As a stage hand, I've put up, taken down and packed away just about every cable configuration you can think of (and a couple that were one of a kind).  Back when guys were using Twist Lock connectors for speakers, the Socapex gave you a higher connector density.  Today with Cannon EP series or Neutrik speakercon you can use a pair of 8 cond. cables and break it out as you see fit.

Pulling a pair of bundled speaker cables is not fundamentally different from pulling a single run of 19/12.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2014, 01:29:35 am »

I see socapex runs for speakers on touring Broadway shows all the time.

Yep, because the sound dept can always borrow a "cup of cable" from the LX dept if they need a longer run to the box seats or because amp land is further off stage than usual.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2014, 07:35:43 am »

Don't use SOCA for speakers!  I just now got home from a gig where a helpful stage hand or audio guy connected to a random "extra" SOCA on the truss.  Fortunately we caught it before powering up the 208V moving light distro and 120V dimmers.  We were very close to frying some speakers.
It is pretty standard.

You just need to be aware of what cables are going where. 

With any cable you should not be "randomly" plugging it in.  Know what it is and where it goes.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 08:17:36 am »

Yep, because the sound dept can always borrow a "cup of cable" from the LX dept if they need a longer run to the box seats or because amp land is further off stage than usual.

In my experience you can't really do that. Lighting cable usually has all the grounds shorted together with a ring in the connector. Cables with the shorting ring won't work for speakers.

Mac
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Josh Hana

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2014, 09:22:25 am »

I see socapex runs for speakers on touring Broadway shows all the time.

We use Socapex fairly often for our monitor rig when running biamped wedges. 1 trunk breaks to 4x nl4. We have socapex> NL8 as our B rig fly looms too.

All the audio connectors are painted blue, all the lighting is painted red, we make sure to mention that to stagehands if both are being used.
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Tom Bourke

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2014, 10:05:55 am »

It is pretty standard.

You just need to be aware of what cables are going where. 

With any cable you should not be "randomly" plugging it in.  Know what it is and where it goes.
I see it all the time too.  In a perfect world it's fine.  In a tour situation it's probably not as big of problem.  In this case it was a corporate show with different departments not communicating all that well.

In the OP's case he is starting out with a new cable system.  I was trying to dissuade the use of an AC connector for speakers.
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John Penkala

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2014, 10:51:31 am »

Why not just use NL8.  That would give you what you need.  I assume you are running the tops passive (not biamped) so you would get a separate feed to each box with the right conductors and it us a lot less weight than Soco.  You can make a short squid that is NL8 to four NL4s and use a coupler to connect them so that you won't lose the versatility of the NL8 cable.

+1

However, I would use NL8 to whichever of these Whirlwind SBNL boxes you need. In my small rig I use NL8's to to both sides for bi-amped tops and subs and another NL8 that carries 4 passive wedge mixes. It's a very versitile system. I think Socapex might be overkill for you. And, the Socapex connectors/cable will cost more if you don't already own it.


http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/snakes-splitters-and-multiwiring-systems/splitters/sbnl-series-nl-splitter-breakouts

-JP
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 11:06:28 pm by John Penkala »
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Robert Piascik

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2014, 07:01:53 pm »


In my small rig I use NL8's to to both sides for bi-amped tops and subs and another NL8 that carries 4 passive wedge mixes. It's very versitile system. I think Socapex might be overkill for you. And, the Socapex connectors/cable will cost more if you don't already own it.


I agree with this approach. I use NL8 for tri-amped tops and also NL8 for 4 passive wedge mixes the daisy chaining works like a charm and saves a bunch of cable runs. Using socapex for this small a set up seems like waaaay overkill. There are easier (and lighter) ways to accomplish the same thing.
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Taylor Holden

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2014, 04:59:56 pm »

originally i was going to use NL8 but i stumbled upon a pre made 19 pin socapex with nl4 fanout and break out box already pre made. This later will allow me to bi amp and add speakers for future flexibility. I also have 0 NL cables right now and literally just bought these speakers. I used to only have a 1/4" system.

So this is a completely new system to me. The cable is already made correctly I metered it all just need to buy a custom rack panel now. Does anyone suggestions on custom panels?

This cable actually was previously used by DB sound. Also my system is used for one offs that i do on my own. No other lighting companies or audio companies are involved so the confusing the cable thing will never be an issue.


For touring this is a very normal thing but companies have different cables that they use to do it. I say this just from working for a touring company as of recently.

These pre made ones are pretty nice and not wired for lighting.
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Neil White

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2014, 06:06:08 pm »

So this is a completely new system to me. The cable is already made correctly I metered it all just need to buy a custom rack panel now. Does anyone suggestions on custom panels?

From the picture, that cable looks to be 4 x NL4 to a Socapex Female connector. This would normally be a break in cable rather than a break out.

A socapex panel for an amp rack would normally have a female connector on it and the break out cable for the speaker end would be a male socapex to 4 x NL4. This means you don't have exposed pins with speaker voltage on anywhere in the system.

Neil
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2014, 05:11:15 am »

Don't use SOCA for speakers!  I just now got home from a gig where a helpful stage hand or audio guy connected to a random "extra" SOCA on the truss.  Fortunately we caught it before powering up the 208V moving light distro and 120V dimmers.  We were very close to frying some speakers.

2 things:

1) Soca is the industry standard for a good reason. It works and its ubiquitous. Good labelling and competent crew fixes these problems. Lots of companies over here (EU) actually use non-shorted ground soca for lighting so that it is interchangeable.

2) I've seen a hang of D&B Q1 be connected to a 240v lighting soca and livened up. It made a nasty noise, but it worked fine, no damage.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2014, 03:52:21 pm »

Years ago I worked on a "Soca-Rig", and the connectors were reversed (as compared to the lighting rig). You couldn't patch audio to lights even if you wanted to...
Our inventory didn't have the shorting rings, so the same cables could be used for the whole set-up.
In the "old days", soca was real time saver when you were screwing with 20-30 boxes a side. Soca to EP-6 was the "standard" breakout, with soca patch panels at the amps.

I would not hesitate to use it today, if I had the need.
Chris.
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Re: Socapex speaker runs
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2014, 03:52:21 pm »


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