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[frank kayser]

Tinkering around with some LED pars and whatever, I have come to the realization that the DMX numbering scheme/assignments to function are all over the map.

Some group of designers get drunk and now cannot read the cocktail napkins through the beer ring?

Ok, I know DMX isn't only for lights, and surely not only LED par, etc.

But when the same manufacturer maps their different fixtures - seeming randomly, I have to ask what gives?  What secret joke was I not let in on?

Case in point:

Chauvet Quad 6 fixture  - operates in 4 channel and 8 channel.
r=1, g=2, b=3, a=4.  Makes sense.
In 8 channel,
1-4 same, 5=macros, 6=speed/strobe, 7=mode, and 8 is dimmer.

Ok.  I can live with that.

That's where the fun ends.
Chauvet Slim Bank TRI-18 is another kettle of fish.
It operates in 3, 5, 9, or 13 channel mode.
OK In 3 channel mode it is 1=r, 2=g, 3=b
Cool.
In five channel mode, it changes.
1 is dimmer, 2=r, 3=g, 4=b, 5=strobe/shutter.
Uh... Why did they bump RGB and put a dimmer on ch 1 on this fixture, but not on the Quad six?
OK it gets better...
in 9 channel
1 is dimmer, 2=r, 3=g, 4=b, 5=strobe/shutter, 6 is custom color, 7 auto programs, 8 is speed and 9 is dimmer speed.
Well, I guess that's consistent enough.

In 13 channel, we're back to RGB in 123.

Huh?

Add to that, some Stellar brand lights used where I work does not assign address 1 to anything.
2-R, 3=g, 4=b.

There's as many function to DMX number schemes as there are lights.

Looking back at hot lights, the first control (maybe only) would be dimmer. Why does that not occupy the first position in any lamp DMX addressing scheme?

It would seem every color fixture would need at least dimmer, red, blue, green.  Beyond that, amber, white, etc.

Couldn't designers at least decide on the first four being stable for lights?

Again, I know someone is out there pulling my leg on this addressing thing, but heck, I'm tall enough now.

What gives?

frank

[Cailen Waddell]

Modern consoles don't care what the dmx addressing is. Thry have fixture libraries already in them and making new libraries is not difficult. They are smart enough to know that when I say 1@full enter, bring the intensity value on whatever fixture(s) I have patched to ch 1 to full

Chauvet is a DJ company at heart. On their Equipment, I think many times they use dmx boards already created by their suppliers in china. But they also know, as long as all the functions are represented, the order doesn't matter. 

Is it just an OCD consistency thing for you?  Or does it impact your ability to control your fixtures?

[James Feenstra]

It would seem every color fixture would need at least dimmer, red, blue, green.  Beyond that, amber, white, etc.

non-led moving lights seldom have RGB functions....they're usually CMY or color wheel. You'll also find that for the most part channels 1-4 control pan and tilt.

Scrollers also don't have dimmer values, or RGB functions either

There's no consistent pattern to how fixtures are made, and realistically, there doesn't need to be, as like previously mentioned most modern consoles have a fixture profile that's specific to how the fixture works

Generally speaking, you will find some consistency throughout most of a manufacturers range, however.

Asking why all fixtures don't follow a similar layout is like asking why all input lists don't have drums first.

[duane massey]

This has been one of my pet peeves for years, but realistically there is no way to organize things in a coherent fashion. While it is certainly true that the bigger consoles do have provisions to either download or build your own profiles, it certainly doesn't help those of us down in the lower$$ trenches.
Chauvet has always been one of the worst, but even the big boys can be inconsistent. Older Martin fixtures had p/t further down the list. It's been a while but it seems I recall having a few choice words about Clay Paky or Coemar.
I try to discourage my clients (typically small bars with low budgets) not to mix brands, especially in similar fixtures, but inevitably they find a "deal" on something and I wind up trying to help them with a system with a simple dmx board (Operator or worse) that the poor guys will NEVER understand. Bitch, bitch, bitch.....

[frank kayser]

Modern consoles don't care what the dmx addressing is. Thry have fixture libraries already in them and making new libraries is not difficult. They are smart enough to know that when I say 1@full enter, bring the intensity value on whatever fixture(s) I have patched to ch 1 to full

Chauvet is a DJ company at heart. On their Equipment, I think many times they use dmx boards already created by their suppliers in china. But they also know, as long as all the functions are represented, the order doesn't matter. 

Is it just an OCD consistency thing for you?  Or does it impact your ability to control your fixtures?

Partly OCD, partly cheap equipment, partly mix 'n match. 

This has been one of my pet peeves for years, but realistically there is no way to organize things in a coherent fashion. While it is certainly true that the bigger consoles do have provisions to either download or build your own profiles, it certainly doesn't help those of us down in the lower$$ trenches.
Chauvet has always been one of the worst, but even the big boys can be inconsistent. Older Martin fixtures had p/t further down the list. It's been a while but it seems I recall having a few choice words about Clay Paky or Coemar.
I try to discourage my clients (typically small bars with low budgets) not to mix brands, especially in similar fixtures, but inevitably they find a "deal" on something and I wind up trying to help them with a system with a simple dmx board (Operator or worse) that the poor guys will NEVER understand. Bitch, bitch, bitch.....

Yeah. That.

non-led moving lights seldom have RGB functions....they're usually CMY or color wheel. You'll also find that for the most part channels 1-4 control pan and tilt.

Scrollers also don't have dimmer values, or RGB functions either

There's no consistent pattern to how fixtures are made, and realistically, there doesn't need to be, as like previously mentioned most modern consoles have a fixture profile that's specific to how the fixture works

Generally speaking, you will find some consistency throughout most of a manufacturers range, however.

Asking why all fixtures don't follow a similar layout is like asking why all input lists don't have drums first.

Touche.

You all are right.  DMX addressing is not the issue, but the intelligence layer between the "standard" controls and the fixtures is the key issue.

Even a DJ would probably want to be able to bring up or dim their entire array, but once mix 'n match happens, the very basic DMX controllers can't do it.  To operate the array "live" even with the two fixtures mentioned, would need an intimate knowledge of the fixtures addressing, and then be practiced to perform the multiple steps necessary.  Not happen'n.  Even setting scenes would be a struggle at best, again requiring detailed knowledge of each fixture.

I was looking at the work that had to be done, and could not comprehend how anyone would deal with it.  I was missing the understanding of the profile mapping.  That was "the joke".

As DMX does EVERYTHING, those DMX number assignments are truly irrelevant from device to device. Without a controller which uses profiles and that intelligence, one really does not have anything remotely workable.   

Lesson learned.  Merci!

Everyone and their brother starts out talking about DMX - serial data, repeated redundant strings, start bit stop bit blah blah. Honestly, that's the easy stuff.  I dare say, much too much emphasis is put on understanding the data stream. 

Now, I'm sure it was my poor searching, but I found scarce little between the non-intelligent controller user manual and the lights themselves.  Nothing that I read weighed the different operating modes of the lights against the capabilities of the controller.  I do understand that such information could scare someone away from a given controller or light.  I also understand that many decent programmed light shows can be "designed" on these controllers - albeit with huge effort.

Hmmm... 

Learned quite a bit in these last two days.   Maybe I'll jot some notes down as a "How (not) To".  Try to fill that information gap I "found", or more realistically, could not find.

thanks all!

frank

[James Feenstra]

Even a DJ would probably want to be able to bring up or dim their entire array, but once mix 'n match happens, the very basic DMX controllers can't do it.  To operate the array "live" even with the two fixtures mentioned, would need an intimate knowledge of the fixtures addressing, and then be practiced to perform the multiple steps necessary.  Not happen'n.  Even setting scenes would be a struggle at best, again requiring detailed knowledge of each fixture.

generally speaking, the more basic the controller, the more complicated it is to program anything more than dimmer channels.

Although to bring up or dim the entire lighting rig, even basic controllers generally include a master of some kind, which will do exactly that

Depending on the controller, it may drive all channel values from 0-255 (based on their relative setting elsewhere in the console), or it may only deal with the channel assigned to intensity in the fixture profiles. Generally speaking, if the console deals with a fixture profile of any kind, it does the latter.

[ProSoundWeb Community]