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Author Topic: speakers and lighting in high school hallways  (Read 12789 times)

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: speakers and lighting in high school hallways
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2014, 09:23:13 pm »

I'll pass personal judgment here.  I think this is one of the stupidest ideas I've heard in ages, and I say that as a person who's degree program was in education.  The is the kind of horse hockey that is usually reserved for football team..

When I work with schools, public and even many private ones, there ain't enough money to pay for batteries for wireless mics, let alone rent the RF.  Here we're talking about playing music and doing some kind of lighting "happy dance" when what we want are the kids to get their books and supplies and their bodies into the class room.  Does this school have money to shovel around?  If so, they can stop this nonsense and send it USD #259, Wichita Kansas.  Our students and teachers would be incredibly grateful to have new sheet music in our vocal music classes, new gel for the next play or musical, or muslin to build more flats.

Do they want moonbeams and rainbows installed, too? ;)

Tim...

You have ascended to full curmudgeon-hood.  Welcome to the club!!!

I'm in complete agreement.  This is a prime example of "we don't have $$$ for what we need, but we have plenty for what we want"-ism.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 10:06:37 pm by dick rees »
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Jay Barracato

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Re: speakers and lighting in high school hallways
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2014, 09:56:41 pm »

Well so am I and I work full time in a high school.

A couple of pep rally/ special occasions a year I will bring in a system and slam them with the music they like (and I hate) but no way I want that daily.

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Brian Rodgers

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Re: speakers and lighting in high school hallways
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2014, 10:37:26 pm »

My advice would be to install a good zoned Intercom system throughout the school so that it can be used for communication between classrooms and the office and to address the entire school. All schools in my area have these and they work great. Then if you want to play music. Hook it up and route it to the hallways like my school used to do. The kids don't care a bit about sound quality.

Also, to add on to what others are saying, not everyone likes the same kind of music and I was always mad or offended by some of the music played at my school. So I would discuss that with the people running the school before doing this. By the way, as a senior in high school, I can say a lot of high schoolers feel this way about music being played during school. Trust me it will bring more trouble than it's worth.
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Kyle Malenfant

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Re: speakers and lighting in high school hallways
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2014, 11:46:40 pm »

Whether the project is a good or bad idea, the work needs to be done by someone so why not be in the running.  I'm here simply asking for some input on the technical side, not the logical.  That you to those who have offered useful advise.  To those commenting on the silliness of the project, thank you as well as these are some points I will bring up to the principle in effort to help manage his expectations.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: speakers and lighting in high school hallways
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2014, 09:51:35 am »

Addin in subwoofers is a great too..how would they be arrayed in such a narrow hallway?  One per X amount of mid/highs?
Most of the ceiling speaker companies make ceiling subs.  some sound pretty good and others sound like somebody hitting a 5 gallon bucket.

What sort of budget does the school have for this disaster?

Have you ever done this sort of install?  It does not sound like you have (by the type of questions being asked-sorry)-which adds another problem to the whole mess. 

It is not just about "using speakers", but rather using them correctly and legally.

Are you certified and licensed to do low voltage install?  Are you aware of the fire codes for wiring in a building and especially in a ceiling?  If not-be ready for some heavy fines or lots of time and money redoing the system to meet code.  Who is going to pay for that?

And what about the kids getting to class on time?  What if they want to hang out in the halls and "jam"?  And THEN start getting their stuff together to then start to go to class.

If the idea is to get them to move faster-then this is the wrong approach-except for the people who don't like the music and they will move faster just to attempt to get away from it.

Bad idea bad idea.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: speakers and lighting in high school hallways
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2014, 10:18:43 am »

Whether the project is a good or bad idea, the work needs to be done by someone so why not be in the running. 

Primarily because the installer will forever take the heat for a hair-brained scheme when the myriad conflicts and short-comings manifest themselves.  Are you really sure you want to take responsibility for this fuster-cluck???

Quote
thank you as well as these are some points I will bring up to the principle  Principal in an effort to help manage his expectations.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: speakers and lighting in high school hallways
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2014, 10:25:02 am »

Whether the project is a good or bad idea, the work needs to be done by someone so why not be in the running.  I'm here simply asking for some input on the technical side, not the logical.  That you to those who have offered useful advise.  To those commenting on the silliness of the project, thank you as well as these are some points I will bring up to the principle in effort to help manage his expectations.

Go to the school and look at the fire alarm control panel.  Somewhere on it will be a sticker, label or a business card of the firm responsible for its installation, testing and maintenance.  Call them, as they will doubtless be involved as this installation.

If the alarm and voice warning system is older, the change being proposed by the principal may well negate any 'grandfathering' that allows the existing system and necessitate a complete replacement of the alarm and voice warning systems.  At the very least it may require changes that will impact the budget for the proposed project (like blow the budget).

I seldom try to talk a client out of handing me money, but this is on time I'd be really digging into what the client "needs" as opposed to what they say they want.  And you're right, someone, somewhere will take their money (presuming the school board or committee doesn't stop this as the colossal waste of $$ that it is).
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Brad Weber

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Re: speakers and lighting in high school hallways
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2014, 11:37:13 am »

Sounds like the goals and expectations need to be more clearly defind before any specific solutions should be discussed.  How loud do they expect the music to be?  What quality do they really expect or need?  How much variation in level/coverage/response is acceptable?  How might this system have to relate to other commmunication and/or life safety systems?  What is the budget?
 
Then there are practical aspects like where the associated amplification and processing would be located, what cable paths exist and so on.
 
A simple example of the possible issues is that you could put speakers every 35' or so as requested but with 10' ceilings that then puts some students just 4'-5' from and directly under speakers with others close to 20' from and well off axis from the nearest speaker.  That would likely result in significant variations in level, response, quality, etc., but whether that is accceptable depends on what they will accept.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: speakers and lighting in high school hallways
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2014, 02:05:03 pm »

How might this system have to relate to other commmunication and/or life safety systems? 
This is a very important point that people who are not in the business often forget.

Let's take an example.  The time is inbetween classes with music blaring and kids in the halls making noise.

A shooter comes in the building (sadly happening to often these days). 

The office tries to make an announcement/warning-but they are excited and forget to turn the music off.  THe kids cannot hear the announcement because of the music.  Some people die.

Now word gets out that the kids could not hear the announcement because of the "blaring music".

Whoever installed the system is going to be in some serious trouble.

The "music system" needs to be tied into the life safety system so that it is shut off during announcements-automatically.

So this also has to be taken into account when designing/pricing the system.

And whos responsibility is this?  the new system designer or the life safety guys?  It is both-because they have to work together to get it to work.

And who pays the life safety guys to modify their system or to hook into it?  Just another expense that needs to be made clear ahead of time or somebody is going to be surprised when the bill comes due.
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Craig Hauber

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Re: speakers and lighting in high school hallways
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2014, 01:14:59 am »

This is a very important point that people who are not in the business often forget.

Let's take an example.  The time is inbetween classes with music blaring and kids in the halls making noise.

A shooter comes in the building (sadly happening to often these days). 

The office tries to make an announcement/warning-but they are excited and forget to turn the music off.  THe kids cannot hear the announcement because of the music.  Some people die.

Now word gets out that the kids could not hear the announcement because of the "blaring music".

Whoever installed the system is going to be in some serious trouble.

The "music system" needs to be tied into the life safety system so that it is shut off during announcements-automatically.

So this also has to be taken into account when designing/pricing the system.

And whos responsibility is this?  the new system designer or the life safety guys?  It is both-because they have to work together to get it to work.

And who pays the life safety guys to modify their system or to hook into it?  Just another expense that needs to be made clear ahead of time or somebody is going to be surprised when the bill comes due.

When I was in high school in the early eighties, they used to play music between classes just like the OP is talking about. 
They also used the already existing school intercom (Dukane I think) and they actually had those two-sided aluminum speaker "pods" mentioned earlier in this thread. 
It sounded fine (when the ASB students in charge of it didn't overdrive the system's input with the Califone cassette player they were using :-) 

Anyways my whole point is that it worked fine, was more than loud enough and actually had decent tone while never losing the announce functions or overrides that a whole-building school intercom was designed for.

So IMHO, just augment the existing "schoolhouse-approved" intercom life safety rig or install one from scratch if there isn't already one!
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Craig Hauber
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