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Author Topic: 3D Prediction  (Read 5908 times)

Mac Kerr

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3D Prediction
« on: January 02, 2014, 10:51:38 pm »

While working in L-Acoustic Soundvision today I was reminded how nice it is to be working in 3D. The screenshots here are all A weighted full range simulations. You have the capability of doing unweghted, or band limited simulations. I have found over the years that Soundvision is a pretty accurate modeler, although it does not do reflections, it is direct sound only. Within those constraints though I have found that when SV shows good coverage, I get good coverage.

The first few screenshots show both arrays on, the last one is only the house left array. The deadspots in the upper outside corners will be filled in with a couple of UPA-1Ps. The arrays are 2 KSubs, 6 K1s, and 4 Karas, flown with the bottom trim at 40' to stay out of video sightlines from the 40' high back of balcony to the 40' high center graphics screen.

The outside downstage stage wings get splashed pretty good, but there will be actors out there and I will bring some headset mics for them to get better GBF.

Mac

« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 10:53:46 pm by Mac Kerr »
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: 3D Prediction
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2014, 01:33:45 am »

So you're working on a show for Novo NordisK? That's cool because I always hear them as sponsors on NPR and PBS, but don't know a damn other thing about them.

Oh and the 3D models are cool too.
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Tommy Peel

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Re: 3D Prediction
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2014, 01:53:47 am »

Pretty cool models, you always get some awesome looking gigs. Maybe we'll get some more pictures later?

Also interesting that it appears that it's in Dallas which is only a couple of hours from here. :-)

Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: 3D Prediction
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2014, 07:36:51 am »

It looks like the yellow scale is covering a pretty wide range of SPL-as compared  to the other colors.

It can make the model look a good bit better.  Changing the scale is something that some manufacturers of products like to do to make things look better.

I believe there should be the same SPL difference between colors-to keep all things "fair".

Turn the level up or down 10dB and see if the coverage still looks as good.

I do agree about working in 3D-MUCH better than 2D.
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Josh Hana

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Re: 3D Prediction
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2014, 09:31:14 am »

I work at an L'Acoustics house and I love Soundvision. Was using Meyer MAPP for a while at the old gig, and I still use that and the JBL calc sometimes, but 3D is very helpful.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: 3D Prediction
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2014, 11:34:46 am »

It looks like the yellow scale is covering a pretty wide range of SPL-as compared  to the other colors.

It can make the model look a good bit better.  Changing the scale is something that some manufacturers of products like to do to make things look better.

I believe there should be the same SPL difference between colors-to keep all things "fair".

Turn the level up or down 10dB and see if the coverage still looks as good.

I do agree about working in 3D-MUCH better than 2D.

Ivan, I have done that, it still looks good. I have also looked at 1 octave bands from 100-10,000Hz. Aside from the K1s themselves, the added advantage is that the bottom of the arrays is at 40' and the venue is an arena so the distance is "smoothed out". In Soundvision you can click on any point in the coverage and it will tell you the predicted SPL for the band you are using as well as full range A weighted and unweighted.

There will be other speakers in the system, but this model was to help decide if I needed a delay ring since the back of the balc is 145', and I think I don't.

Mac
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 11:36:59 am by Mac Kerr »
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Josh Hana

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Re: 3D Prediction
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2014, 11:45:50 am »

145' should be just fine with K1. I'm working on a tent gig right now with KUDO and the closest I can hang delay is 320'
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Mac Kerr

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Re: 3D Prediction
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2014, 12:19:51 pm »

145' should be just fine with K1. I'm working on a tent gig right now with KUDO and the closest I can hang delay is 320'

Is that with all lavs? I think I'm fine, I just don't have any experience with K1. My past experience with SV leads me to trust the prediction. Unfortunately, because it doesn't do reflections and I don't have the time or inclination, it won't predict STI or Alcons to give an indication of expected intelligibility. Even in other software, it would take a trip or 2 to the venue to spec building materials and surfaces. As usual we do without it.

Mac
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Jens Palm Bacher

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Re: 3D Prediction
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2014, 01:42:25 pm »

While working in L-Acoustic Soundvision today I was reminded how nice it is to be working in 3D. The screenshots here are all A weighted full range simulations. You have the capability of doing unweghted, or band limited simulations. I have found over the years that Soundvision is a pretty accurate modeler, although it does not do reflections, it is direct sound only. Within those constraints though I have found that when SV shows good coverage, I get good coverage.

The first few screenshots show both arrays on, the last one is only the house left array. The deadspots in the upper outside corners will be filled in with a couple of UPA-1Ps. The arrays are 2 KSubs, 6 K1s, and 4 Karas, flown with the bottom trim at 40' to stay out of video sightlines from the 40' high back of balcony to the 40' high center graphics screen.

The outside downstage stage wings get splashed pretty good, but there will be actors out there and I will bring some headset mics for them to get better GBF.

Mac
I find another very good feature is the delay map that shows where you have multiple arrival times. Most people can make a nice even coverage map, but that wont do any good if the rig is impossible to time allign.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: 3D Prediction Follow up
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2014, 10:29:52 pm »

There will be other speakers in the system, but this model was to help decide if I needed a delay ring since the back of the balc is 145', and I think I don't.

Mac

Here's a follow up. The prediction was right. the coverage was very even throughout the arena, both for level and frequency response. We had plenty of GBF with the Shure 184 lavs.

We did get to verify that the UPSs at FOH and on the BS console racks worked. About 10 minutes into the audience walk in, shortly after the producer had me crank it up, we blew the breaker in a 200A 3 iso transformer. It must have been a bad breaker, because there is no way were pulling that kind of power, the PA was only the 12 K1s, 12 Karas, and some fill speakers. Video was also on the iso, but only their control, not the 14 large projectors, which didn't need to be isolated because they were connected by fiber. The system tech had the iso disconnected and the power moved to the direct feed in less than a couple of minutes, and we were back up with sound as soon as the amps came back on.

The load in was slow till the rigging was done, the points were all in concentric circles, our rigging requirements were not. Lots of bridles and spanner truss and we were off to the races. we used a spanner truss to locate our upstage motor which made it easy to do the azimuth aiming. Because it was not practical to fly a UPA where I had intended to cover the upper outside seating area we went with an L-Acoustics 115 on a yoke and clamped it to a handrail firing up at the seats. It worked great, being in line iwth the main PA the timing was easy and the acoustic blend was almost perfect.

Here are some photos. The first photo is about 8hrs into the load in, when all the motors were finally up. The second is the HL array. At the trim of 41' to the bottom of the lowest Kara it had a 5 down angle. The third is the HR endfire sub array. The fourth is the delay speaker. The last is the audience over my shoulder.

Mac


« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 11:40:56 pm by Mac Kerr »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: 3D Prediction Follow up
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2014, 10:29:52 pm »


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