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[Scott Olewiler]

Putting together a system for small outdoor shows and understand I'm going to need more power for subs outside than I do inside since I will not be able to load against walls and such. Assuming a crossover point of 100hz and running 1900 watts continuous power for tops, what would be the recommended power I should run for subs? This a very general question and I will not, at the moment, be adding any more power for tops, just need to know what would be appropriate power match for subs?

[Jonathan Goodall]

I'll say it before someone else has too. What kind of show/ area to cover/ number of people attending, so many variables to account for.
 

[Cailen Waddell]

What are your tops?  How big an area are you covering?  What volume would you like to achieve in dB?  How would you measure dbA or dbc?  Slow? fast?  How much hotter do you like to run your subs than your tops?  What type of music?  EDM would require completely different subs than jazz.

Define your needs then we can help.  A discussion of watts is kinda irrelevant without knowing what kind of speakers and their sensitivity.

[Rick Powell]

Your speakers can't tell if they are outdoors or indoors.  Power is power.  The more power you have, the more headroom you will theoretically have indoors or outdoors; however, the more potential to blow your speakers if the power far exceeds the amount needed to induce maximum excursion, and the operator applies it.  There are electronic protections that can be applied to limit the damage potential should the subs be turned up to maximum excursion territory, but nothing is 100% foolproof when you are running at the edges.  To answer your question specifically we'd need to know what your sub cabinets are and what speakers they are loaded with.

As far as db potential is concerned, depending of the style of music, subs could generally be anticipated to be the same to 15 dB more capable than your tops to have the proper balance.  10 db represents a doubling of the volume, which would be a fairly good average for an outdoor sytem and accounting for more power needed to push the bottom notes for modern music.  How much power needed to get the 10dB extra headroom over your tops depends highly on the efficiency of your sub cabinets and speakers.

[Mac Kerr]

Your speakers can't tell if they are outdoors or indoors.  Power is power.

The speakers can't tell, but the audience sure can. Without room gain you need a lot more power to achieve the same SPL you would indoors.

Mac

[Bob Leonard]

OP,

I would question any spec that state your upper cabinets will handle 1900 watts continuous, but regardless, that figure has nothing to do with the power required for whatever subs you own or intend to purchase.

Either use the manufacturers recommended power for the cabinet or use the rule of thumb, 2x the long term power rating of the cabinets.

Control of all this mighty power will be done through the use of a crossover or DSP, so don't leave home without it.

[Scott Olewiler]

Ok. Maybe this will help. I have 4 Carvin PM153 powered by an EP4000, 2 on each side. For indoor shows, I use just 2 with a couple of EV ZX-1 underneath for blues and hard rock and those barely keep up with my tops if I have to push tops to limit.

Those speakers claim 128db peak, with 2 on each side amp specs say 950 watts each side. That amp would probably be my limiting factor since I'm sure the speakers can handle as much as that amp can thru at them. Ok. That being said, I am assuming 150 people at you average backyard party. I don't have a db meter nor do I understand what db level I'm looking for, this is the hobby area of the forum, right? I typically mix so that people can hold a conversation if they want 20 ft from speakers, if they talk loud, but they still feeling the subs. I also do not believe the kick drum is the star of the show, you should feel it more than hear it. In other words I don't use my subs to cover up the fact the rest of the mix sucks, my overall mix is super clean and tight, not bottom heavy.

I sticking with the tops I mentioned, they work very well 2 on each side at high volumes with little to no comb filtering slightly splayed but the subs are a blank slate. In spite of their cost I would be perfectly happy just adding on more of the compact EV subs until I have enough because of their awesome sound and super portability. Specs on the amp in those seems to very widely depending where you read it, store sites say 700watts with 126 db spl, I think from using them that that might be peak, EV's site says 400 cont., 600 program.

So I have no idea what I'm going to use for subs, just looking for direction on what would be enough to match tops I plan on using. Definitely sticking with tops I have for now. Bands I do sound for now indoors love them. Hopefully this is enough info for some suggestions.

[Ivan Beaver]

Putting together a system for small outdoor shows and understand I'm going to need more power for subs outside than I do inside since I will not be able to load against walls and such. Assuming a crossover point of 100hz and running 1900 watts continuous power for tops, what would be the recommended power I should run for subs? This a very general question and I will not, at the moment, be adding any more power for tops, just need to know what would be appropriate power match for subs?

As a "general rule" you will need twice to 4 times the amount of subs/power outdoors as indoors.

The tops really don't matter.  Either they cover the area loud enough or not.  If your tops can provide enough SPL at the needed distances then you are fine on that end.  Just add more subs.

Also consider that "typically" people spread out more when outside-so the distances between speakers and people is greater-so there will be an "overall" less SPL outside than inside due to this.

You will also have less reflections off of walls-reducing the SPL of the mains.  But the sound will be clearer (due to less reflections).  This makes some people think it is quieter (less mush going on)

People are often quite surprised how quiet their systems are when taken outside.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Putting together a system for small outdoor shows and understand I'm going to need more power for subs outside than I do inside since I will not be able to load against walls and such. Assuming a crossover point of 100hz and running 1900 watts continuous power for tops, what would be the recommended power I should run for subs? This a very general question and I will not, at the moment, be adding any more power for tops, just need to know what would be appropriate power match for subs?

You can add all the power you want, but it comes down to translating that power into SPL.

If you want to maintain a certain level of "feel" when moving outdoors, count on doubling up the number of sub cabinets outside.  You say 2 just barely make it indoors, so 2/side will just barely make it outdoors.  I'd be looking to go with 3 or 4 subs/side.

How much power will you have available for these gigs?  Do you have your own distro or will you be relying on a generator company or a site electrician?

[Paul G. OBrien]

I have 4 Carvin PM153 powered by an EP4000, 2 on each side. For indoor shows, I use just 2 with a couple of EV ZX-1 underneath

The EV ZX1 sub has a realistic long term max output of around 123-124db(published peak numbers are pure wishful thinking) so adding more power won't increase output it'll just increase your repair cost when you blow the drivers. In general you want your subs to be capable of at least 3-6db more output than the tops 1 on 1, but you would need at least 4 of these to just match the output of capability of 1  trx153 so this really isn't a sensible course of action. For this outdoor show you might consider renting 4 double 18 subs and an amp rack cause that's what it's gonna take to make the system balanced.

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