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[Mike Sullivan]

I'm looking into getting into lighting a bit more than just some LED cans on a basic DMX set up.  Has anyone yielded quite a benefit from adding things such as moving heads, haze, etc. to their rigs? Mine's nothing special (QSC KW153 over KW181's, most shows are a couple hundred at most, occasionally more) but I don't want to dive into a ton of money for movers and such if there isn't a great benefit.  Just looking to see what everyone else has done.  As far as renting (which I know will be mentioned) the nearest guy that does good stage lighting is about 3 hours away, so not much of a benefit unless it's a good paying show.

[Jerome Malsack]

From what I have seen and heard, the sound man adding lights normally gets little added for the show. 

Keep it basic and simple for most shows.  If you have some extra then go for it.   

Extra cable, DMX,   Power,  time to setup and strike,  Program to the show?  Troubleshooting,  bulbs burn out,
Insurance for the truss over the band? 

[duane massey]

Two trees, used Show Designer (Ebay $200 or less), 2-3 LED pars (or 1 ADJ DOTZ Matrix) per side, a few cables and you're good.
http://www.venuesupply.com/detail/adj-american-dj-dotz-matrix-flood-high-output-cob-led-wash-blinder-with-smooth-color-mixing-powered-by-six-tri-cob-leds-5712

Adding rear movers, beam-type lights, etd, will require a smoke/haze machine, plus the extra expense and hassle. I would only do this if you can charge quite a bit more or you really want to do it for your own satisfaction.

[Phillip McVea]

As far as lights go, you got an incredible range and selection to choose from. moving heads(wash/beam/spot), strobes, scanners (which are most often easily overlooked if you're trying to create energetic light shows), beam bars, etc. literally so much to choose from. it basically all depends on what kind of show & atmosphere you're trying to create. you can influence an audience's emotions with lights just as much as music can.

you also have to consider the kind of market these lights would be shining on. if your playing to an audience full of 20-somethings, lasers, strobes, fog bursts, etc can really put the show on a new level, regardless of the audience size. but if you're just paying folk music to a bunch of senior citizens, i don't think your investment would go as far.

First off you'll need something to get the beams to show up in. I always use haze (the antari hz-300 never lets me down) because it's thin, most of the time is easy to breathe in, and can dissipate through a combination of most ventilation systems & open windows, doors etc. when the show is over. If you're doing small indoor shows and want to add dramatic, sudden effect, chauvet makes great fog machines w/ built in LEDs to light up the cloud. They're called the Geyser & Geyser Jr. (i've only seen the Geyser in person a few times, GREAT effect, tall fog bursts for its size. going to pick up the geyser jr. whenever it's released. decent price point too).

if you're REALLY wanting to pack a punch, there's a US based company called X-Laser, which makes fantastic laser scanners. I personally own the Mobile Beat MK5. WONDERFUL!!!! Tight sharp beams, and it's actually kinda quiet too. makes smooth animations if you don't make them too complex. only 15K stepper motors though, so it can't go ~above & beyond~. You'll need a laser variance, which they make pretty easy to get (it's called the EZ Variance Kit), considering if you went and applied for it directly with the FDA it could take waaaayy longer. X-Laser also makes models of all sizes (from filling a living room to a convention center arena). My next purchase from them will be the SkyWriter Chroma Mini, which has AUDIENCE SCANNING!!!! I cannot tell you how happy i am to finally get my hands on this. Look for something called Polaris if you're interested, although it's not available on all models, as it can't work on pulsed lasers, only continuous beams i believe.

If you're interested in lasers, some other good companies are LumaLaser, BSL, and Lasertainment, although i've never (knowingly) seen any of these models in person.

if you can get LED lights that fit the need, DO IT!!! I cannot tell you how great it is to have control over your power draw. being able to directly dim/brighten the light source as opposed to having a fire-hot lamp constantly sucking up energy is a great benefit if you're someone who doesn't have access to unlimited power.


then there's control. which is actually the most critical component. If you're going for lots of moving lights, energetic, intelligent, motion filled shows, then you're either going to want to look at software based DMX controllers because they can provide the kind of command & control to do your rig justice, or (if you've got the money) console controllers. I know GrandMA, Martin M6, High End Systems & ETC make good intelligent light consoles. But again, no personal experience with these. Daslight Gold (this one isn't really best for more complex shows though, it uses a step-based program instead of a timeline) and MA on PC are what i personally use. My next investments will probably be the M2PC controller, just so i can get a taste of martin products. crossing my fingers i'll be able to own a full size M6 or even a Maxxyz one day lol. Fiesta2 is what i use to control the laser, but Pagolin QuickShow is a much more popular.

So i've only covered about 3 or 4 topics and somehow this post ended up being an essay. In short, out of the almost $12k i've spent on my personal lighting rig, i haven't regretted a single dollar. there's just something about the lights....

anways, good luck on your rig! hope it turns out beautiful

[Rob Gow]

Love lighting. So much that I almost wish I could be only a light guy. There's not a big market for it in my area.

I whipped up this video to show my 3 main setups:

A: 11 Blizzard 3NX on a 16' rear truss, 2 Blizzard Fab5's per side on T-Bars

B: add 4 Martin Minimac Profile moving heads

C: add 4 Chauvet Intimidator Spot Duo moving heads

This gives me a dozen moving heads on the rear truss. It looks awesome, the problem is there often isn't a whole lot of extra money for lighting, or I can't use a hazer. Without a hazer, you might as well forget moving heads as you don't see the light beams, and he's just a lot of extra work.

The full meal deal works out to about $11k worth of lights, but hey, expenses are expenses. I picked up the martins used for $500. They run between $350 - $500 used. One of my goals this year is to get the light rig out more and more.

Here's that video:
http://youtu.be/I6aajl89834

And a quick video of the movers with no fog or haze.
http://youtu.be/ANI9xcIImcU

[Mike Sullivan]

Love lighting. So much that I almost wish I could be only a light guy. There's not a big market for it in my area.

I whipped up this video to show my 3 main setups:

A: 11 Blizzard 3NX on a 16' rear truss, 2 Blizzard Fab5's per side on T-Bars

B: add 4 Martin Minimac Profile moving heads

C: add 4 Chauvet Intimidator Spot Duo moving heads

This gives me a dozen moving heads on the rear truss. It looks awesome, the problem is there often isn't a whole lot of extra money for lighting, or I can't use a hazer. Without a hazer, you might as well forget moving heads as you don't see the light beams, and he's just a lot of extra work.

The full meal deal works out to about $11k worth of lights, but hey, expenses are expenses. I picked up the martins used for $500. They run between $350 - $500 used. One of my goals this year is to get the light rig out more and more.

Here's that video:
http://youtu.be/I6aajl89834

And a quick video of the movers with no fog or haze.
http://youtu.be/ANI9xcIImcU

Oh hush you, you're always showing your rig off everywhere, that's the reason I'm wanting to dig farther into it, lol.

To the others, thanks for your replies.  I have a few of my Fab5's being fixed, and since most of my shows are more energetic and aimed at a younger crowd (or even drunk crowd) I think the lights would help.  Gonna try to get 4-8 moving heads, that way I can use them in different combos, right now looking at the Torrent F3 from Blizzard, and have also thought about the X-Ray from Blizzard as well, sick looking light and I think 4 of them would look sick in a rig.

[(Brian) Frost]

I need basic lights to do my gigs at all so I went with 2 per side blizzard q6a.  If clients want expanded sound I can put 2 on each corner, this lights a 16x24 stage pretty nicely for a small scale show.  I have some chauvet megatrix to add some motion for dj gig rentals and some blizzard flurry q for even more flash and trash.  Its nothing huge but it adds a lot to the show and I can point to what they are getting extra in the expanded lighting rigs.

[Thomas Bishop]

A few years ago I bought a pair of MAC300's as my first endeavor into lighting.  After 4 rentals they were paid for, and thus the start of my transition into lighting full time instead of sound.  Audio has no return on investment; I have made WAY more money owning lighting than PA.  But it also has to do with the work I have targeted.  It's a lot easier to get away from the bar band scene if you have a decent lighting rig.

[WouterBeneke101]

Mate I would definitely take a look at investing in some lights lasers and smoke machines. The initial investment is so small compared to the profit margins involved in hiring them out... It is definitely worth it.

No joke some of the lights and lasers I will import from china for about $25 and rent them out at $35 ha ha ha

 

[Mac Kerr]

Mate I would definitely take a look at

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Mac

[Stuart Pendleton]

I invested a bit in lighting. I bought 35' of 12" box truss from Global. Then 6 ST90 and 2 ST132 crank stands from Global, as well as their truss adapters, T-bars, and O clamps. Added a Radiance hazer and then 8 Blizzard Q12a's for the front. Back truss had 4 Martin MX-4 scanners, 2 ADJ lasers, and three Martin Mini-Macs. Added 6 Martin CX-4's.  Added wireless DMX icicles from Blizzard. Control started with a Martin Freekie, moved on to Bluelight X1, and finally an Elation Show Designer 1.

After getting everything programmed, and working nicely, I was getting some  very nice comments from bands, clubs, patrons, etc. Everyone thought it was one of, if not THE, best light rigs used locally in clubs....and I managed to add only about $50-75 a night to my PA rates because the PA system was already enough costs that I almost out priced myself for the local market. However, I was getting the top rates of anyone in my market. I did manage to drive up the costs of renting rigs locally for most bands by 40% over the course of a few years. Lighting was a part of that rate increase.

Yes, it will get noticed. It will let you charge a bit more. It will get you some work you wouldn't otherwise get. It will also be a MAJOR time sink at load in/out for not a lot of cash-flow. After 7 years of growing and using this rig, I have now cut back to 2 ST90 stands and t-bars, 8 Q12a cans, one laser, Radiance hazer, and the Martin Freekie. I sold off the rest. Make no mistake I loved using it, it did make the clubs look amazing, it did set me apart, and did add far too much time to shows to be worth the effort in the end. But I did so love running the system....YMMV.

[Mike Sullivan]

I invested a bit in lighting. I bought 35' of 12" box truss from Global. Then 6 ST90 and 2 ST132 crank stands from Global, as well as their truss adapters, T-bars, and O clamps. Added a Radiance hazer and then 8 Blizzard Q12a's for the front. Back truss had 4 Martin MX-4 scanners, 2 ADJ lasers, and three Martin Mini-Macs. Added 6 Martin CX-4's.  Added wireless DMX icicles from Blizzard. Control started with a Martin Freekie, moved on to Bluelight X1, and finally an Elation Show Designer 1.

After getting everything programmed, and working nicely, I was getting some  very nice comments from bands, clubs, patrons, etc. Everyone thought it was one of, if not THE, best light rigs used locally in clubs....and I managed to add only about $50-75 a night to my PA rates because the PA system was already enough costs that I almost out priced myself for the local market. However, I was getting the top rates of anyone in my market. I did manage to drive up the costs of renting rigs locally for most bands by 40% over the course of a few years. Lighting was a part of that rate increase.

Yes, it will get noticed. It will let you charge a bit more. It will get you some work you wouldn't otherwise get. It will also be a MAJOR time sink at load in/out for not a lot of cash-flow. After 7 years of growing and using this rig, I have now cut back to 2 ST90 stands and t-bars, 8 Q12a cans, one laser, Radiance hazer, and the Martin Freekie. I sold off the rest. Make no mistake I loved using it, it did make the clubs look amazing, it did set me apart, and did add far too much time to shows to be worth the effort in the end. But I did so love running the system....YMMV.

That's good to hear.  If I do end up doing something, more than likely it will be pre-wired and pre-set up as much as possible, to ease load in and load out. 

[steve rakas]

That's good to hear.  If I do end up doing something, more than likely it will be pre-wired and pre-set up as much as possible, to ease load in and load out.

I have a small lighting rig of led pars with a hazer i bought off ebay.  8 64s in the back and 4 (2 per side) in the front all on t-stands.  i have the cans pre-wired on the bars.  I zip tied a furman power strip onto each bar and have small 3 foot dmx cable wid in already.  All I do is attach each bar on the stans and connect ac and dmx to each bar then to my controller.  I picked up[ a chauvet obey 70 to run the show.  all said and done i think I only paid out about 1300 and charge an extra 100 per show for lighting added to a sound gig. 

[Mike Sullivan]

I have a small lighting rig of led pars with a hazer i bought off ebay.  8 64s in the back and 4 (2 per side) in the front all on t-stands.  i have the cans pre-wired on the bars.  I zip tied a furman power strip onto each bar and have small 3 foot dmx cable wid in already.  All I do is attach each bar on the stans and connect ac and dmx to each bar then to my controller.  I picked up[ a chauvet obey 70 to run the show.  all said and done i think I only paid out about 1300 and charge an extra 100 per show for lighting added to a sound gig.

I think that's the route I'm going to do.  Going to put 4 cans on a single bar, with a cup mount and brackets to hang from truss.  Right now I have 16 Fab5's but I think I'm going to sell them and switch to something a bit more durable and brighter, something like the ToughPAR's.  I'd also like to build a simple PAR56 rig, with 4 trees of cans front and back.  Something simple and easy to set up.

[Tim McCulloch]

I think that's the route I'm going to do.  Going to put 4 cans on a single bar, with a cup mount and brackets to hang from truss.  Right now I have 16 Fab5's but I think I'm going to sell them and switch to something a bit more durable and brighter, something like the ToughPAR's.  I'd also like to build a simple PAR56 rig, with 4 trees of cans front and back.  Something simple and easy to set up.

We have built 4-bars with power (we didn't use power strips, though), DMX in/out patched, C clamps to hang with, and a stand adapter.  We used 2" square aluminum tube.  It took about 4 hours per bar to build.  Remember to leave enough slack on the power and DMX cords to allow full 180° pan and tilt.

The bars transport on 6 or 9 slot meat racks that are just over 5' long, so it's a awkward truck pack.

[Rob Gow]

We have built 4-bars with power (we didn't use power strips, though), DMX in/out patched, C clamps to hang with, and a stand adapter.  We used 2" square aluminum tube.  It took about 4 hours per bar to build.  Remember to leave enough slack on the power and DMX cords to allow full 180° pan and tilt.

The bars transport on 6 or 9 slot meat racks that are just over 5' long, so it's a awkward truck pack.

Pics?

[Brian Jojade]

If done correctly, lighting can be a profitable endeavor.  However, it can also end up being a huge waste of money and actually devalue your service.


A simple 4 par can on stand setup only costs a couple hundred dollars, and setup would only be a few minutes added to your time, so the value add of something small like that makes sense.  If you can get an extra $50 for that little effort it is worth it and can make you stand out from the guy that doesn't have access.

Now, on the flip side, if you're spending thousands on gear and adding a couple hours of time to setup and strike and not gaining any additional income from it, then why are you wasting your time and money?

[Pete Erskine]

I'm looking into getting into lighting a bit more than just some LED cans on a basic DMX set up. 

Here is an interesting combination sound and lighting DMX board.

SI Performer

[ProSoundWeb Community]