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[Samuel Rees]

Sounds perfect. Thank you sir. Not sure where to start, I'll be googling later and scope out my local Home Depot.

[Tim McCulloch]

Sounds perfect. Thank you sir. Not sure where to start, I'll be googling later and scope out my local Home Depot.

Root research can be done at the cable manufacturer level... Carol, Coleman, Southwire - there are others - all have weight, dimensional and rating agency data on their web sites.

Your best deal on price will come from buying full, 250' spools rather than 'cuts' and you may find a better deal by shopping local/regional electrical supply stores.  If they say they sell only to the trade, tell them you are an OEM building a prototype.  Most of them won't care and just want to make the sale.  Copper is a commodity with prices changing daily so it will pay to call around as not every vendor updates his prices in lockstep with the market, but many do.  If you find a "killer deal" on line I will offer two caveats:  it may be thinner copper with more insulation (dangerous fakery) or it's legit but shipping will negate any cost savings.  There have been forum posts about both...

Ken at OA Windsor is a nice guy who really listens to his customers and makes a quality product.  His PowerCon® boxes are largely the result of folks in our tiny little spec of an industry asking for them.  We're very pleased with everything Ken has made for us and expect our Windsor boxes to still be in use 30 years from now.  Buy once.

Now for the topic swerve...  if you have system hums almost everywhere you work I submit you have a system problem.  I don't want to discourage you from building the PowerCon® patchbay/distro - I think your goal of simplicity & consistency is spot on - but the underlying problem is still there.  Just sayin'....

[Samuel Rees]

I should have been more clear on that last bit - I don't have a recurring grounding problem any more than any 1-4 circuit small provider. It's more like "I don't often have ground related hum, but when I do its annoying as %\*€" and takes valuable time out of my deployment to solve even if it's brief. It's just another benefit of the project. I see consistency,  simplicity, and interfacing with new powerCON gear as the primary goal. Being able to ask my other guy to wire the stage same as ever, while just Figure out where to run 1-4 feeders from sounds amazing.

I'll look into it and be sure to go for the full spools. Also - Ill scope manufacturer sites in advance for the cable: 12-3 SEOxxx.

When you say "sell to the trade" does that mean electrician companies or just businesses in general? I'll keep the strategies you mentioned in mind, I'm sure I can convince someone...

I'm sold on OA Windsor - I've heard these same words about him before and it sounds like a no brainer. I was thinking about 4 PowerCon to Edison quads and a PowerCon mult. I'd use 2 quads downstage and two quads upstage for band power powered off "loop 4" from my PMD, each line coming off of the mult.

[Brian Bolly]

I should have been more clear on that last bit - I don't have a recurring grounding problem any more than any 1-4 circuit small provider. It's more like "I don't often have ground related hum, but when I do its annoying as %\*€" and takes valuable time out of my deployment to solve even if it's brief. It's just another benefit of the project. I see consistency,  simplicity, and interfacing with new powerCON gear as the primary goal. Being able to ask my other guy to wire the stage same as ever, while just Figure out where to run 1-4 feeders from sounds amazing.

I'll look into it and be sure to go for the full spools. Also - Ill scope manufacturer sites in advance for the cable: 12-3 SEOxxx.

When you say "sell to the trade" does that mean electrician companies or just businesses in general? I'll keep the strategies you mentioned in mind, I'm sure I can convince someone...

A couple of the "go-to" sites for cable might be Camel Traders, as well as Nassau Wire.  In a fairly recent search for some cable, the cost of a spool + shipping was still a savings over the prices some of the local suppliers had given me.

[Jon Ross]

Par metal sells metal enclosures for decent prices. They come with an aluminum faceplate but they might sell one to you without one. You can use a pre punched steel panel as a front. The front attaches with just 2 screws on each side. I don't think a 16 hole panel will work though, you'd need a panel with more space on the sides to attach the enclosure.

[George Dougherty]

A couple of the "go-to" sites for cable might be Camel Traders, as well as Nassau Wire.  In a fairly recent search for some cable, the cost of a spool + shipping was still a savings over the prices some of the local suppliers had given me.

+1 on camel traders. They stock the Coleman CCI Royal cable that will actually fit in a powercon connector as 12/3 SOOW.  That's apparently not common. It's also the neoprene type jacketing which is really nice handling.  A 250' spool wasn't cheap, but I'd highly recommend looking for the CCI Royal stuff if you want something nice to deal with.

[Samuel Rees]

+1 on camel traders. They stock the Coleman CCI Royal cable that will actually fit in a powercon connector as 12/3 SOOW.  That's apparently not common. It's also the neoprene type jacketing which is really nice handling.  A 250' spool wasn't cheap, but I'd highly recommend looking for the CCI Royal stuff if you want something nice to deal with.

Sounds great, I'll look into that. It's been suggested that I consider SEOOW because of a possible weight reduction which is a very serious consideration for me. You were saying not all 12/3 will fit in a PowerCon connection - this worries me. How can I identify what will and won't? Is there another spec?

[Tim McCulloch]

Sounds great, I'll look into that. It's been suggested that I consider SEOOW because of a possible weight reduction which is a very serious consideration for me. You were saying not all 12/3 will fit in a PowerCon connection - this worries me. How can I identify what will and won't? Is there another spec?

I will be blunt- all the info you seek is readily available from the manufacturers of the various stuff you intend to use.  Neutrik publishes the min/max cable O.D. that will fit the
Ethercon strain relief chuck.  The cable makers publish the O.D of every wire and cable they make.  Is it really that difficult to find this information?
A few minutes with the search engine of your choice will provide the answers much quicker than we can look it up for you and then post it here.

The weight savings of SEOOW is minimal.  If you're carrying all the cables on your back I can see where a couple of pounds per 100' would be important, but in the scenario you propose I doubt you'll save more than 20 pounds for the whole kit.

[Samuel Rees]

I will be blunt- all the info you seek is readily available from the manufacturers of the various stuff you intend to use.  Neutrik publishes the min/max cable O.D. that will fit the
Ethercon strain relief chuck.  The cable makers publish the O.D of every wire and cable they make.  Is it really that difficult to find this information?
A few minutes with the search engine of your choice will provide the answers much quicker than we can look it up for you and then post it here.

The weight savings of SEOOW is minimal.  If you're carrying all the cables on your back I can see where a couple of pounds per 100' would be important, but in the scenario you propose I doubt you'll save more than 20 pounds for the whole kit.

I'll look into those specs from the various manufacturers, thanks. This is just very new territory for me - I appreciate the help, even if my questions are silly. I hadn't even considered the diameters of the jacket or the core in relation to the PowerCON strain relief or interior clips, because I've never done this before. I have a friend who is going to help me out with teaching me some of the procedure for wiring as he has much more experience with this. 20-30 pounds for the whole thing is a little less than weight of the one extra powered speaker, all carried in my small SUV which is currently at about weight capacity. Once I've got a real number in front of me, it may or may not matter, but I definitely want to think about it. I have the goal of redoing most of my rig, getting a little more capable, but staying at about the same weight (which means I have to slim down).

Thanks again everyone. I have a lot of research to do from your direction. I'll post back once I've identified a choice for my 12/3, and then I'll just be waiting for parts to arrive.

PS - Powercon specs say 6-15 mm for the cable diameter. Southwire 12/3 SEOOW is ~15.2 mm and SOOW is ~15.4.  I see what you mean about this being possibly tight. Thats just the first cable I've looked at. Neutrik does interestingly spec 14/3 on their PowerCON connector. That still seems confusing. I get that 14/3 is regular 15A service and makes sense for many applications, but wouldn't they put 12/3 as the primary spec which matches the 20A service rating? Here is the link:

http://www.neutrik.com/en/audio/powercon/powercon-20-a/nac3fcb

I guess it doesn't matter because I want to buy in one big spool for the price, so 12/3 all the way it is. Just curious.

[Nils Erickson]

Hey Samuel,

I was in a similar spot a couple years back.  I built all of my power cabling from 12/3 SO; I ordered all the bulk cable from Camel Traders.  They are nice people with good pricing.  It is a tight fit.  Build lots of good edison-powercon feeders, and use a high quality edison like Hubbell.  Think in advance about how you want to mark/identify your cabling, and how you want to wrap it (velcro or tie line).

Likewise, I ordered my powercon quad boxes from Ken at OA Windsor. Also a great guy with good pricing. 

Might I suggest you look at this instead of trying to do it yourself:
http://www.triktags.com/power.htm
I ordered one of these and it is great.  The cost savings of doing yourself seems negligible to me, especially when you will spend half of the retail price on the powercons anyway.

Cheers, and have fun putting this stuff together.  It is a bit of work.  But, you can't find it commercially anywhere I don't think. Someone will likely prove me wrong, but I have never seen 12/3 SO cables for sale; you simply have to make them.

Nils

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