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[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Hang on a minute here. What's the format for getting audio from the stage back to the console? Is the Light Viper some sort of digital snake? And if so, how do you control the preamp gain?

That's a good point. 

Jerry - there are two issues here - the first is that clearly it is possible to get whatever outputs your cabling may be into either the CL1, a GLD stagebox, or any other mixer - there are analog outputs somewhere - either directly via stage wiring, or the end of your Light Viper.

The other is that you already have a digital snake, apparently.  For your current system, it appears you have fiber optic cabling already in place.  Depending on what type of fiber that is, it's very likely that you can re-use that via relatively inexpensive fiber to copper media converters, and then put the stagebox of whatever mixer you choose on stage, bypassing whatever gyrations you're now doing to adjust your pre-amps.

[Jerry Abson]

That's a good point. 

Jerry - there are two issues here - the first is that clearly it is possible to get whatever outputs your cabling may be into either the CL1, a GLD stagebox, or any other mixer - there are analog outputs somewhere - either directly via stage wiring, or the end of your Light Viper.

The other is that you already have a digital snake, apparently.  For your current system, it appears you have fiber optic cabling already in place.  Depending on what type of fiber that is, it's very likely that you can re-use that via relatively inexpensive fiber to copper media converters, and then put the stagebox of whatever mixer you choose on stage, bypassing whatever gyrations you're now doing to adjust your pre-amps.

Gentlemen, attached is our current wiring diagram for the original system. All thats changed is the FOH mixer is now the Crest HP8. Again, learning hands on preamp is a phrase I am not familiar with. Sorry for my nubeness!

And the clouded portions are what would be removed with the new digital snake.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

That's a good point. 

Jerry - there are two issues here - the first is that clearly it is possible to get whatever outputs your cabling may be into either the CL1, a GLD stagebox, or any other mixer - there are analog outputs somewhere - either directly via stage wiring, or the end of your Light Viper.

The other is that you already have a digital snake, apparently.  For your current system, it appears you have fiber optic cabling already in place.  Depending on what type of fiber that is, it's very likely that you can re-use that via relatively inexpensive fiber to copper media converters, and then put the stagebox of whatever mixer you choose on stage, bypassing whatever gyrations you're now doing to adjust your pre-amps.

Yup.

Hang on to your $$$ until you can fully understand how you can make use of as much or your existing setup as is possible/practical.  That's just Stewardship.

If you have the time and patience to provide all requested information with brands, models, etc as well as info on the use(s) of the system, congregational expectations and such, you'll be able to get very good assistance here.

I have gone into several situations in H.O.W. after they'd gotten quotes for substantial financial outlays and whittled things down to fit the client needs rather than the  contractors bottom line.  The last one was quoted at $30K and I did it for $6K.

The problem was that they began by asking the wrong question:  How much for a new system?

The $30K was a reasonable quote in response to the question asked.  The $6K solution was the answer to the question, "What do we need to do to repair and upgrade our system to fulfill our needs?".

[Jerry Abson]

Yup.

Hang on to your $$$ until you can fully understand how you can make use of as much or your existing setup as is possible/practical.  That's just Stewardship.

If you have the time and patience to provide all requested information with brands, models, etc as well as info on the use(s) of the system, congregational expectations and such, you'll be able to get very good assistance here.

I have gone into several situations in H.O.W. after they'd gotten quotes for substantial financial outlays and whittled things down to fit the client needs rather than the  contractors bottom line.  The last one was quoted at $30K and I did it for $6K.

The problem was that they began by asking the wrong question:  How much for a new system?

The $30K was a reasonable quote in response to the question asked.  The $6K solution was the answer to the question, "What do we need to do to repair and upgrade our system to fulfill our needs?".

I like that last sentence there! I will be using that when I start to get more quotes! Thanks!

[Samuel Rees]

Just to reaffirm - with a GLD or CL1 you can always just put the stagebox with the mixer and use a short patch cable. Then it is just like a mixer without a digital snake!

[Mac Kerr]

That's a good point. 

Jerry - there are two issues here - the first is that clearly it is possible to get whatever outputs your cabling may be into either the CL1, a GLD stagebox, or any other mixer - there are analog outputs somewhere - either directly via stage wiring, or the end of your Light Viper.

The other is that you already have a digital snake, apparently.  For your current system, it appears you have fiber optic cabling already in place.  Depending on what type of fiber that is, it's very likely that you can re-use that via relatively inexpensive fiber to copper media converters, and then put the stagebox of whatever mixer you choose on stage, bypassing whatever gyrations you're now doing to adjust your pre-amps.

Tom is correct. You already have the fiber infrastructure, you would just be replacing the LightViper hardware with Dante hardware. This is not a major re-wiring job, it just requires a few media converters to get from RJ45 to fiber. It is likely you would have a network switch in the Dante version that could have a fiber interface anyway.

Mac

[Tim Perry]

We don't do fancy productions, and will occasionally do a choir (2 mics max) and childrens programs (2 to 4 mics max).

What were looking for is the ability to better control the sound, limit our dB's and reduce both low feedback (200Hz is our problem area) and high feedback (not much of an issue for us) Being able to better control the overall sound using modern equipment as well as the abiltiy to better effect the instruments is also what we are looking for.

To me this is totally and operator/user problem not an equipment problem.

A digital board is a convenience to one who already knows what is needed in the way of compression and gating and parametric EQ.  It is not the magic cure-all that suddenly makes a world of difference over a decent analog board.

As for expansion, we can't. Our county has indicated we cannot expand more than we have on our current site, so we don't see us growing into a mega church or exceeding more than 500 per service.

Hope that helps.

When a sales guy talks about expansion, it is generally related to channel count or more outputs. This could happen if your production needs expand. It can happen regardless of the physical  size of the venue.

I would suggest you go back and re-define the problem you are attempting to solve and go from there. If it is "more training" then I can think of a few solutions.

[Steve M Smith]

We need to go digital, that much we are sure of.

Why are you so sure about that?  What advantage is it going to give you over what you have now?


Steve.

[Jerry Abson]

Why are you so sure about that?  What advantage is it going to give you over what you have now?


Steve.

Becouse we are on our second analog soundboard, we can't afford to keep replacing equipment that from my understanding, is outdated. CCI doesn't even have the parts to repair the one we just bought from them last year. So why keep spending 6 grand on equipment that you cant get parts for? That to me is really bad stewardship.

As to the question of training, yes, there is more training that can occur, but when you can't afford it and don't have the time for it, you need to find something that can help visually with understanding how everything works. I can sweep frequencies to see what sound great, what needs to be boosted or dropped. But when it comes to gates and compressors, seeing what my adjustements are doing is huge for me. I don't have enough time to really do a good job, and it took me 3 weeks to get the kick popping like I want it. Now, I just need another 36 weeks to get all the channels on the compressors / gates completed for the rest of the drums and singers and pastors.

But when I got to work with board that had the setting visually, it took me ten minutes to work out a setting I really likes for the guys snare. The constant adjusting of eq and faders between songs and services doesn't allow me the ability to really concentrate on the mix, just getting it to sound good. While Scenes offered by digital boards will also enable me to really tweak the sound because when I get close, I can spend more time tweaking, instead of re-adjusting.

Being able to program and store eq's, compressors and gates, as well as individual settings for each musician, service, song and pastor is huge for us. I have books of setting that help make the worship practice go smooth. But instead of having to open the book, find the settings for the individual, and then make those changes, wouldn't it be nice to choose that and bip, done? Also, different settings for adult and youth, no more reducing gain, cutting massive lows, etc. Just program the digital to store all that for us.

And complexity. Right now if you look at our system, we are wired for miles left and right. Wouldn't it be nice to not have to patch when cables and inputs when new stuff comes down? Being able to do that from the board would be so much better.

Also, we can't expand. Our county has informed us that we are not allowed to expand beyond our current capacity. We are able to add another foyer to ease congestion at one entrance, but we cannot build another sanctuary, or increase the capacity of the one we have. So the stage is set with 32 inputs, there will be no more than that.

The advantages to going digital far exceed the advantages of staying analog. I am no sound tech, and am learning as I go along. But going digital makes more logical sense than staying with an analog system. I get anyone trained properly (pro grade) can make anything work well, and that a digital board is not the majic bullet. But if I see my team working better using a digital, then I need to go digital.

[Jeff Carter]

Being able to program and store eq's, compressors and gates, as well as individual settings for each musician, service, song and pastor is huge for us. I have books of setting that help make the worship practice go smooth. But instead of having to open the book, find the settings for the individual, and then make those changes, wouldn't it be nice to choose that and bip, done? Also, different settings for adult and youth, no more reducing gain, cutting massive lows, etc. Just program the digital to store all that for us.

Problem is, the optimal settings for EQ and dynamics on each channel are going to change depending on mic position, what else you have going in the mix that day, gain structure, mains volume, stage wash volume, number of people in the room, and probably about a half-dozen other uncontrolled variables.

If you have a situation with a few distinct ensembles (with reasonably consistent rosters of musicians) rotating through the room then save/recall can give you a rough starting point--of course, you then have to plug in everything exactly the same way every time. But if you're throwing together a different band each week, save/recall won't really help you.

[ProSoundWeb Community]