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Author Topic: Comparison passive/active  (Read 16417 times)

chuck clark

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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2013, 06:52:57 am »

hi Debbie, you might try going to Guitar center as they are currently stocking both 612's and 412's. Nothing like a good old fashion A-B side by side comparison to slice thru all the smoke of opinion and haze of better sound thru marketing. Then YOU can tell US about it! I agree that 8 db seems like too much difference if indeed both boxes have the same drivers and the only difference is active / passive x-over.  Except for the pain of having to run two cables to each box, Bi-amping is more efficient so it's probably the way of the future.
Back in the day when 400 Watts per side was a big amp, it made more sense to bi-amp. As long as the woofer is getting 500W and the tweet is getting 200 adequate volume should not be an issue.  I too still like the simplicity of running 1 cable to each speaker.  Also lightweight amps have made dragging an amp rack around much less difficult so not as big a negative as it once was either.  Happy sailing on the sound waves!
Chuck
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 07:09:12 am »

The 412 doesn't use the same drivers as the 612. I looked at this for an install application recently.  As the drivers are different, it is reasonable to believe that they don't sound the same, however by all means go listen.  If you are looking for a speaker that you care less about, check out what mark and Liz have at Audiopile.  I've never heard them, but I trust that they are of reasonable quality and are an ok to good speaker.  For the price and the application they might be the right tool for the job. http://audiopile.net/products/Speakers/DUS_SPEAKER_SELECT.shtml
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Chuck Simon

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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 09:17:43 am »

Cailen is correct, the 412 and 612 use different speakers.  This info is available at the JBL sight under Service/Exploded views.  If you are used to JBL performance, I don't think you are going to be happy with the Audiopile speakers.  They might be OK, but they are not in the same league as the JBLs you have or even the 412s.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 09:22:51 am by Chuck Simon »
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 09:58:40 am »

And I'll just clarify that I don't think the audiopile speakers are comparable to JbL. Although maybe the jrx....  Regardless I suggested the audiopile because it will make noise and might be the right tool for the job of a speaker that you have minimum investment in for wet bar band gigs.  Debbie, I don't know your clients, so that's a judgement call you have to make. I haven't heard the 412, but I have read that if you like the 612, you will find the 412 disappointing.
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Steve Garris

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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2013, 03:00:22 pm »

I would be looking for close-out prices on the PRX 612. GC is letting all 600 series go for very cheap now that the 700 series is out.
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Don Boomer

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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2013, 03:28:36 pm »

I'm going to have to challenge pretty much all of these statements. Waste 30 % of powe in a crossover? They would say have to dissipate 300 watts or more if you used a 1,000 W amp or larger and ran it full tilt. Granted the HF section is often padded but still...

 Passive crossovers work by impedance mismatches. It doesn't necessarily show up as dissipated power but it does not make it to the driver as it would if the amp were directly connected to the driver.  A simple 1 dB insertion loss in a passive crossover would mean that 26% of the power would  not be developed by the amp.  I'm not talking about padding here.

A pretty famous speaker system manufactured by one of my former employers (with 10's of thousands of them out in the world) had a 500W rating even though the woofer was only rated at 250W by itself.  We could make and stand behind that because we knew the crossover would never actually let the power through.

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Active speaker cost less?  Where do you shop?

Generally speaking, passive speaker systems require an amplifier to work  ;D.  So if you add in the cost of the speaker system and the amp and compare apples to apples, it is almost always the case the a self contained active system is less than the cost of the separate components used in a passive speaker system

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Active protect the driver better... well maybe... but I still see a number of blown units come through the doors i the local purveyor of band stuff.

Nothing is guaranteed ... but if you were to poll manufacturers you would see a lot fewer driver failures in their active systems than in their passive systems.  With an active crossover (and you could use this externally of course) when you square off the power amp by driving the lows too hard none of that passes up into the HF section as it does with a passive system. 

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Active speaker use DSP... all of them? really? 
 

You must have missed the word "if" in my statement


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Don Boomer
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2013, 05:02:37 pm »

Thanks so much for all the good info and suggestions everyone.

Chuck and Steve, GC is exactly where I got my 612's from and they were a really good price. No regrets at all there! I looked for a 412 last time I was there but didn't see one. I'll check again this weekend when I drop by my local GC !!

At first I had read that they had the same drivers and one was simply the active version of the other but yes Cailen it seems that is not so - shame really - would be a much better AB comparison if the only difference was the installed amp. It would be a great way to check out just how much improvement is made by relying on the engineers to marry the driver, HF driver, amp, crossover, DSP etc...

Don, It makes absolute sense that it works out cheaper overall to purchase actives - no external amp required. However, I have the amps already and thought it better to utilize them with passives rather than sell them.

I'll see what becomes available and I might stick with what I have.

The comment I made regarding drinks and spills was because 3 weeks ago, I provided sound for a band at a local restaurant/bar. Ironically it is a fun place to play but gets very loud and crazy. Early in the evening there were so many drunks dancing with drinks in their hands and leaning over the front of the stage, I couldn't believe I didn't lose a monitor to a full glass of beer. It seemed to spill everywhere but inside my enclosures!!
I told the band I wouldn't do that venue again but the guitar player really wants me to.
As an experiment this past weekend, for the same band, I tried side-fills (or should I say cross stage monitoring). It worked really well and the singer even said she didn't hate it.!! I explained that this is the only way I'll do the crazy bar from now on and they agreed.
This brings me to my original posting. My other thought was to use 'inexpensive' passive monitors but I didn't want to lose too much quality of sound.
As a final thought....I had considered the EV zlx112 (unpowered) only $299 BUT only rated at 250 watts. I have heard the zlx112P and it is certainly good enough for monitors. Again, not sure how the passive 'version' compares !!!!
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Chuck Simon

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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2013, 05:21:51 pm »

Debbie, I would suggest a couple of used JBL Mpro 412s or MRX 512's.  They are pretty good speakers.  I used a couple of the Mpro 412s as monitors along with my SRX 712's and they did a good job.  After getting some more 712s I sold the 412s to a band that now uses them as mains.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2013, 05:49:33 pm »

Debbie, I would suggest a couple of used JBL Mpro 412s or MRX 512's.  They are pretty good speakers.  I used a couple of the Mpro 412s as monitors along with my SRX 712's and they did a good job.  After getting some more 712s I sold the 412s to a band that now uses them as mains.

Now wouldn't I LOVE to justify a couple of 712's as monitors !!!  - I use SRX for FOH.
However, back to affordability - good call on the MRX512's. They don't seem to come up very often and they tend to hold their value just like the SRX's.  I love the Neo's and so does my back !
Never heard the Mpro's but heard good things about them for the most part. Sounds like you were pretty happy with them till the extra 712's came along !!! Did the MRX series replace them?
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Chuck Simon

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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2013, 06:44:09 pm »

Yes, MRX replaced Mpro.
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Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2013, 06:44:09 pm »


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