ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: Comparison passive/active  (Read 16744 times)

Debbie Dunkley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5031
  • Central North Carolina
Comparison passive/active
« on: November 12, 2013, 02:40:04 pm »

I want to get a couple of passive speakers to use as monitors on stage. The music ranges from classic rock to jazz - audience up to 250 -mainly small to medium bar gigs.
1st reason being that I currently use 2xQSC K10's and 2x JBL PRX 612's (which sound great and do a good job for me every time) but sometimes it is a pain getting those extra power outlets to the front of the stage.
2nd reason is that I already own a couple of Crown amps (XLS2000 and XLI3500) and could utilize them with passive speakers AND save some money on the speakers.
And reason # 3 - at that one gig where some idiot decides to pour his beer into my monitor, it will not do as much damage ?????

As I already own and like the PRX612'2 , I was thinking about getting a couple of PRX412's to run from one of my amps. They sell for $499 or less and I could save a bunch of money - keeping my 612's nice for FOH in small venues.
On stage volume is never crazy loud and I normally have plenty of power left over if I need it. I also realize that although my K10's and the 612's are rated at 1000w, only 500 w is dedicated to the driver and the horn wouldn't need the other 500w-so realistically it wouldn't be fair to compare the RMS rating at 600w and 1000w.

However, looking at the SPL of each speaker, it is only 126db for the 412's and 134db for the 612's. I was hoping that the passive version powered with an adequate comparative amp would compare well with the powered version. Would I notice much difference using the 412's as monitors compared to my 612's?
Logged
A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Jerome Malsack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1334
Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2013, 03:12:49 pm »

Most of the problem is the beer or liquids in the 120 power quad boxes at the front of the stage and that you still will have those power cords in the front to support some of those pedal boards and such.  By not having the 120 on the front of the stage it will limit your liability if something stupid happens.  After all it will be the band who used the extension cord and brought the power to the front of the stage.   Be carefull of those foam rubber walls they have for sound dampening on the rear wall they can have toxic smoke if ignited by your electrical. 

Dont forget that the band will have their ten or twenty drinks lined up on the floor to be kicked and pulled around on the cables.  Nocked off the top of the guitar cabinets, along that back line also. 
Logged

TJ (Tom) Cornish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4283
  • St. Paul, MN
Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2013, 03:51:28 pm »

Most of the problem is the beer or liquids in the 120 power quad boxes at the front of the stage and that you still will have those power cords in the front to support some of those pedal boards and such.  By not having the 120 on the front of the stage it will limit your liability if something stupid happens.  After all it will be the band who used the extension cord and brought the power to the front of the stage.   Be carefull of those foam rubber walls they have for sound dampening on the rear wall they can have toxic smoke if ignited by your electrical. 

Dont forget that the band will have their ten or twenty drinks lined up on the floor to be kicked and pulled around on the cables.  Nocked off the top of the guitar cabinets, along that back line also.
Um, what?  Don't have Edison receptacles on the stage because beer might get spilled in them, but you need to have them anyway for guitar pedals so they can start the walls on fire?

I have never heard such a defense for passive speakers.  If a person is legitimately concerned about the location of the receptacle, getting a longer IEC cable is pretty trivial.  They're available to at least 50', which should remove it plenty far from the beer fountain.
Logged

TJ (Tom) Cornish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4283
  • St. Paul, MN
Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2013, 03:57:33 pm »

I want to get a couple of passive speakers to use as monitors on stage. The music ranges from classic rock to jazz - audience up to 250 -mainly small to medium bar gigs.
1st reason being that I currently use 2xQSC K10's and 2x JBL PRX 612's (which sound great and do a good job for me every time) but sometimes it is a pain getting those extra power outlets to the front of the stage.
2nd reason is that I already own a couple of Crown amps (XLS2000 and XLI3500) and could utilize them with passive speakers AND save some money on the speakers.
And reason # 3 - at that one gig where some idiot decides to pour his beer into my monitor, it will not do as much damage ?????

As I already own and like the PRX612'2 , I was thinking about getting a couple of PRX412's to run from one of my amps. They sell for $499 or less and I could save a bunch of money - keeping my 612's nice for FOH in small venues.
On stage volume is never crazy loud and I normally have plenty of power left over if I need it. I also realize that although my K10's and the 612's are rated at 1000w, only 500 w is dedicated to the driver and the horn wouldn't need the other 500w-so realistically it wouldn't be fair to compare the RMS rating at 600w and 1000w.

However, looking at the SPL of each speaker, it is only 126db for the 412's and 134db for the 612's. I was hoping that the passive version powered with an adequate comparative amp would compare well with the powered version. Would I notice much difference using the 412's as monitors compared to my 612's?
A passive speaker will be more difficult to make sound as good as a quality active speaker, as the work the manufacturer has done to eq, align, and protect the active speaker must be replicated by an external DSP.  These days it's pretty hard to make a case for low-end passive speakers.

There are lots of places to get longer power cords for active speakers.  Middle Atlantic makes them up to 25': http://www.middleatlantic.com/power/iec.htm, and even Monoprice has a nice selection of cords in varying gauges up to 25': http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5295&seq=1&format=2

You can also get combination AC/signal cables like this: http://www.fullcompass.com/product/334932.html

If it were me, I'd stick to active boxes.
Logged

Jerome Malsack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1334
Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2013, 08:26:52 pm »

Um, what?  Don't have Edison receptacles on the stage because beer might get spilled in them, but you need to have them anyway for guitar pedals so they can start the walls on fire?

I have never heard such a defense for passive speakers.  If a person is legitimately concerned about the location of the receptacle, getting a longer IEC cable is pretty trivial.  They're available to at least 50', which should remove it plenty far from the beer fountain.

Ok yes you win    it was a rubbish answer. 

The actives will have better sounding output compared to the passives. 

 
Logged

Debbie Dunkley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5031
  • Central North Carolina
Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2013, 10:37:42 pm »

Thanks guys.... I had a feeling that there wouldn't be too much support for passives. For FOH I have a passive system (SRX) and an active one (PRX and QSC subs) and I use them for what I consider to be the appropriate application on a  gig by gig basis. I understand the argument for both and enjoy them for different reasons. I may be complicating something that doesn't need changing. I would be interested to know though if anyone had ever compared between the PRX 400 series and the PRX 600 series in terms of efficiency.
Logged
A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20521
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2013, 11:50:42 pm »

Thanks guys.... I had a feeling that there wouldn't be too much support for passives. For FOH I have a passive system (SRX) and an active one (PRX and QSC subs) and I use them for what I consider to be the appropriate application on a  gig by gig basis. I understand the argument for both and enjoy them for different reasons. I may be complicating something that doesn't need changing. I would be interested to know though if anyone had ever compared between the PRX 400 series and the PRX 600 series in terms of efficiency.

No experience with PRX comparisons.

I liked this:  "For FOH I have a passive system (SRX) and an active one (PRX and QSC subs) and I use them for what I consider to be the appropriate application on a  gig by gig basis. I understand the argument for both and enjoy them for different reasons."

Well said.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Debbie Dunkley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5031
  • Central North Carolina
Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2013, 11:59:39 pm »

No experience with PRX comparisons.

I liked this:  "For FOH I have a passive system (SRX) and an active one (PRX and QSC subs) and I use them for what I consider to be the appropriate application on a  gig by gig basis. I understand the argument for both and enjoy them for different reasons."

Well said.

Thank you Sir.
Logged
A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Don Boomer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 288
    • RF Venue
Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 12:06:34 am »

I would expect a big difference, getting bigger as you turn them both up.  Passive crossovers suffer from insertion losses that will waste 20-30% of the power from your amp and never allow it to get to the speaker.  Active speakers will typically have a lot less distortion and even less if you drive them both hard.  Active speakers will likely protect the drivers much better and cost considerably less.  And if the active speakers utilize DSP you will likely get a bunch more benefits than these (depending on the manufacturer).
Logged
Don Boomer
RF Venue

Tim Perry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1251
  • Utica-Rome NY
Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 12:45:18 am »

I would expect a big difference, getting bigger as you turn them both up.  Passive crossovers suffer from insertion losses that will waste 20-30% of the power from your amp and never allow it to get to the speaker.  Active speakers will typically have a lot less distortion and even less if you drive them both hard.  Active speakers will likely protect the drivers much better and cost considerably less.  And if the active speakers utilize DSP you will likely get a bunch more benefits than these (depending on the manufacturer).

I'm going to have to challenge pretty much all of these statements. Waste 30 % of powe in a crossover? They would say have to dissipate 300 watts or more if you used a 1,000 W amp or larger and ran it full tilt. Granted the HF section is often padded but still...

Active speaker cost less?  Where do you shop?

Active protect the driver better... well maybe... but I still see a number of blown units come through the doors i the local purveyor of band stuff.

Active speaker use DSP... all of them? really? 

Hey I LIKE my K speakers but the big advantage is: no amp rack, no speaker cables.







Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Comparison passive/active
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 12:45:18 am »


Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.05 seconds with 25 queries.