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Author Topic: House Mic  (Read 7101 times)

Jerry Dycus

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House Mic
« on: November 09, 2013, 07:05:33 AM »

We have a sanctuary that holds about 500 members. To get some natural sounds into the FOH mix; ie, when a congregational hymn is sung, what would be the simplest way to accomplish this?
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Tom Young

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Re: House Mic
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2013, 06:12:37 PM »

We have a sanctuary that holds about 500 members. To get some natural sounds into the FOH mix; ie, when a congregational hymn is sung, what would be the simplest way to accomplish this?

I hope that you mean that you wish to put some room sound into a recorded or broadcast mix.

Right ?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: House Mic
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2013, 06:32:15 PM »

I hope that you mean that you wish to put some room sound into a recorded or broadcast mix.

Right ?
I certainly hope the goal is NOT to amplify the audience.

Yes there are systems that can do this as a voice lift (LARES etc), but trying to do it with a simple normal system is just asking from trouble.

If it is for recording-mic placement is very critical.  If the mic can "hear" the speaker system-then mixing that in with the direct record feed requires the use of a properly set delay-so the sound at the mic and the direct feed are combined at exactly the same time.

If not-then there will be combfiltering-which will lower the overall quality.

Often things like this "sound" simple-but there are other things that have to be considered if the end product is to be good.
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Jerry Dycus

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Re: House Mic
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2013, 06:49:15 AM »

I certainly hope the goal is NOT to amplify the audience.

Yes there are systems that can do this as a voice lift (LARES etc), but trying to do it with a simple normal system is just asking from trouble.

If it is for recording-mic placement is very critical.  If the mic can "hear" the speaker system-then mixing that in with the direct record feed requires the use of a properly set delay-so the sound at the mic and the direct feed are combined at exactly the same time.

If not-then there will be combfiltering-which will lower the overall quality.

Often things like this "sound" simple-but there are other things that have to be considered if the end product is to be good.

We record a CD that is taken to shutins. They would like to be able to hear the congregation sing.
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Samuel Rees

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Re: House Mic
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2013, 08:37:33 AM »

Your question made us think you wanted to feed room (mics in front of your PA) through your PA. This is generally a bad idea. "FOH mix" means the mix coming out of your FOH PA. Seems now like you want it in a "recording mix". Two questions:

1) What does your recording mix consist of? For example, is it a split or matrix of the FOH mix? If so, you need to use another solution (unless you have a digital console that will feed matrices with channels and buses). The goal is to get the room into the record mix, but not the FOH mix. A stereo group or a pair of post fader auxes would do nicely. To recommend options more specifically, you'll need to tell us what mixer you are using or how many aux / group / matrices you have, and how your recording mix is derived.

2) Crowd mic'ing can be done several different ways. A pair of small diaphragm condensers on short stands on the edge of stage facing out is simple and common solution for touring bands. It covers mostly the front rows and is easy to deploy. Many houses of worship have a small stereo pair of microphones hung over the crowd. This gets more of the crowd but obviously needs to be rigged and is more expensive to deploy. How big a crowd are you trying to cover?
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Jerry Dycus

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Re: House Mic
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2013, 07:31:47 AM »

Sorry to have been misleading. The reason I used FOH is because the sound going to FOH is same sound that goes to recorder. We have a Yamaha GA32/12 board, and currently I am feeding the CD recorder with M1 in fixed position which feeds a fixed amount of signal from every channel to M1 output (thus mimics FOH). I realize that if I use ambient mics I will have to change to variable, take whichever channel I use for ambient mic out of FOH mix and feed only to recorder. I know how to do that. My question, though confusing I'll admit, is what type(s) of ambient mic(s), location, etc. Sancturay is 50' wide, 75' long with 45' high ceiling. Crowd varies from 200-300.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: House Mic
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2013, 07:49:28 AM »

Sorry to have been misleading. The reason I used FOH is because the sound going to FOH is same sound that goes to recorder. We have a Yamaha GA32/12 board, and currently I am feeding the CD recorder with M1 in fixed position which feeds a fixed amount of signal from every channel to M1 output (thus mimics FOH). I realize that if I use ambient mics I will have to change to variable, take whichever channel I use for ambient mic out of FOH mix and feed only to recorder. I know how to do that. My question, though confusing I'll admit, is what type(s) of ambient mic(s), location, etc. Sancturay is 50' wide, 75' long with 45' high ceiling. Crowd varies from 200-300.
As Samuel said- a mic on stage facing the audience is usually the best idea-for a couple of reasons.

First there is less of the PA getting into the mic.  Second it is facing the mouths of the people singing-which is better than facing the back of their heads.

Mic choice depends a good bit on budget.  I would suggest a cardioid condenser as the "type"-but don't put it to close to anybody-or they will be the loudest thing in the recording.  Back it up a bit.


Make sure it is not near anything that makes noise-HVAC duct-instrument etc.  If you can get it up in the air a bit-that will give a move even coverage-point it down towards the congregation.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Mike Scott

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Re: House Mic
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2013, 11:59:50 AM »

Is this an application where something like a Zoom recorder in the room would be good enough and easier to implement?
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Mac Kerr

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Re: House Mic
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2013, 12:20:23 PM »

As Samuel said- a mic on stage facing the audience is usually the best idea-for a couple of reasons.

First there is less of the PA getting into the mic.  Second it is facing the mouths of the people singing-which is better than facing the back of their heads.

Mic choice depends a good bit on budget.  I would suggest a cardioid condenser as the "type"-but don't put it to close to anybody-or they will be the loudest thing in the recording.  Back it up a bit.


Make sure it is not near anything that makes noise-HVAC duct-instrument etc.  If you can get it up in the air a bit-that will give a move even coverage-point it down towards the congregation.

If it can be near the PA, but with the PA out of the pattern of the mic, there will be less issue of too much PA in the audience reaction mic because the direct sound and the AR mic will be in time with each other.

Up high and aimed down at the audience is good.

Mac
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: House Mic
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2013, 10:48:10 PM »

Our church has structural arches that project into the room from the side walls. We placed a proximity mic on the congregation side of the arch.  This protects the mic from the speakers.  It seems to work quite well.
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Re: House Mic
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2013, 10:48:10 PM »


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