Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Victor Pruitt]

whats the best way to provide signal to a mono bass stack for electronic music

i feel that combining left and right would cause phase cancelation if there were any subtle differences in the tracks L/R signal

if i feed the bass with just say the left channel it will solve that issue. But if the music was to get paned right the bass would cut out...

i think theres no way around this dilemma

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

whats the best way to provide signal to a mono bass stack for electronic music

i feel that combining left and right would cause phase cancelation if there were any subtle differences in the tracks L/R signal

if i feed the bass with just say the left channel it will solve that issue. But if the music was to get paned right the bass would cut out...

i think theres no way around this dilemma

Victor...

Don't worry...

Be happy!

[Victor Pruitt]

well its kind of my responsibility to worry no?  i get that "know one will hear the difference" in some day and night kind of way.    but i feel that is a terrible motto  one i hear way way to often

[Marjan Milosevic]

At your DSP where you chose the subwoofer channel input source, you chose SUM. Which is essentially a summed L+R signal. Meaning MONO. :-)

[Ivan Beaver]

whats the best way to provide signal to a mono bass stack for electronic music

i feel that combining left and right would cause phase cancelation if there were any subtle differences in the tracks L/R signal

if i feed the bass with just say the left channel it will solve that issue. But if the music was to get paned right the bass would cut out...

i think theres no way around this dilemma

Even if there is a difference-why would that be a problem? 

it would only be a problem is the signals had a different phase response-and then only when it is enough to cause an issue.

Even if you have different bass stacks-then those signals would cancel-due to the basic omni radiation pattern.

And if you think about the size of the room the music was mixed in-there simply was not enough distance between the speakers to make a difference at the low freq.

As others have said-you are putting to much worry into this-UNLESS you are trying to "Y" the left and right channels together.  In that case-there are all sorts of possible problems-including distortion-possible equipment damage etc.

But if you combine the signals together inside a DSP to go to a single sub output-then that is just fine and the usual way to do it.  I prefer to do any sub processing after the signals have been combined0on the output side of the DSP.

[Victor Pruitt]

i am aware of that feature
but if there were any differences in the signal would  that not cause cancelation?    just imagine that the bass slowly panned from left to right, summing these signals would be bad i would think all the info thats different from left to right would be lost i no..??

At your DSP where you chose the subwoofer channel input source, you chose SUM. Which is essentially a summed L+R signal. Meaning MONO. :-)

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

i am aware of that feature
but if there were any differences in the signal would  that not cause cancelation?    just imagine that the bass slowly panned from left to right, summing these signals would be bad i would think all the info thats different from left to right would be lost i no..??

You're talking about insignificant, barely measurable variations.

As has been said:

1.  Sum properly.

2.  Don't worry about it.

3.  It really doesn't make any difference in the real world.

[Mac Kerr]

i am aware of that feature
but if there were any differences in the signal would  that not cause cancelation?    just imagine that the bass slowly panned from left to right, summing these signals would be bad i would think all the info thats different from left to right would be lost i no..??

Only signals that were close to 180º out of phase with each other would cancel, and it is unusual to get those kind of phase differences with signals that have a wavelength over 10' long. Either sum them electronically in your DSP (or aux fed subs), or put all your subs in a mono stack and wire them in stereo anyway and let them sum in the air.

Signals that are panned hard left or hard right were going to only come out of half your subs anyway.

Mac

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

i am aware of that feature
but if there were any differences in the signal would  that not cause cancelation?    just imagine that the bass slowly panned from left to right, summing these signals would be bad i would think all the info thats different from left to right would be lost i no..??

Walking a foot or two to the left or right will also affect addition/cancellation at different frequencies, and this effect can be DRAMATIC indoors.  Give it a try both ways and come up with your own conclusion - the general convention is that subs summed to mono either via aux or group fed subs on the console or summed to mono in the DSP is the way to go.  YMMV (but I doubt it).

[Ivan Beaver]

i am aware of that feature
but if there were any differences in the signal would  that not cause cancelation?    just imagine that the bass slowly panned from left to right, summing these signals would be bad i would think all the info thats different from left to right would be lost i no..??

What "differences" are you talking about?

If just panning-then consider what happens when you pan. Lets say all the way to the left or right is 0dB.  In the middle each of those signals is -6dB (if a good pan pot/circuit) is used.  So when you sum them you have 0dB.  In between hard left and center is a variation.

The net result is still 0dB output.  So no difference. 

Of course you are not going to get "the feel" of the pan-but there is no way to get that in a mono configuration and the only place you would get the "proper feel" is in the middle of the listening area.  Anybody off to the sides is not going to have the "proper feel" anyway-so why bother if there is "something lost" in the summing.

[David Sturzenbecher]

You don't "need" a DSP to do it right.  Just some 10k resistors.  Or something like this...
http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/combiners/imp-line-level-combiner

[Ivan Beaver]

You don't "need" a DSP to do it right.  Just some 10k resistors.  Or something like this...
http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/combiners/imp-line-level-combiner

But you don't get as much isolation between the different channels (left and right) when you do this.

It is FAR better to do it inside a DSP.

Of course it depends on what the overall effect is-how much loss is tolerable (not so much in level but in sound quality/seperation)

[James A. Griffin]

i am aware of that feature
but if there were any differences in the signal would  that not cause cancelation?    just imagine that the bass slowly panned from left to right, summing these signals would be bad i would think all the info thats different from left to right would be lost i no..??

What Mac said  "Signals that are panned hard left or hard right were going to only come out of half your subs anyway."

But really, when is the last time you heard a record mixed like that?  Can you name one?    Lets ASSume you can name 25 such tracks.   And let's say the universe of available tracks is 25,000,000.     You're spending a lot of time worrying about a 1 in a million track.   If and when that happens, pan everything straight up and call it a show....

[Gordon Brinton]

If we are talking about a live stage mix, just keep the bass guitar as mono in the mixer. If we are talking about L/R stereo feeds from a keyboard, the low frequencies are kept symmetric between both channels from the source. If we are talking about CD/mp3 music during breaks, same deal, the low end is recorded and mixed as mono (panned center) from the studio.

So, what's the problem?

[ProSoundWeb Community]