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[John Sabine]

I saw a demo on YouTube where a guy sprayed this product called Q20 into a power drill then operated it under water. a friend of mine says that it's on the up and up because he's seen the demo in person bit I think they are using distilled water in the tank.  any ideas?

[John Sabine]

excuse the grammar but my thumbs suck at typing.

[Mike Sokol]

I saw a demo on YouTube where a guy sprayed this product called Q20 into a power drill then operated it under water. a friend of mine says that it's on the up and up because he's seen the demo in person bit I think they are using distilled water in the tank.  any ideas?

You must be referring to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtiyYBo4_38

It's totally wrong and dangerous to imply that this spray can protect you from power tool shock in the rain or underwater. The reason why the host isn't getting shocked is that the water is in an insulated plastic container so there's no voltage gradient, plus I'm sure he's standing on a wooden floor (or other insulator). If he were to try this demonstration while standing in a puddle of water on the ground, then the GFCI should trip and protect him from electrocution. However, if there was no GFCI in the circuit, then he would be severely shocked and possibly killed.

NEVER operated any power tool plugged into a 120-volt receptacle in the rain or while standing in a puddle of water. That's just asking to be electrocuted. If you have a battery operated drill, then of course that's safe to use in the rain since its power supply is totally contained. However, most battery operated appliances don't like water and you'll likely shorten the life of the battery powered drill, saw or whatever.

The same safety rules apply for churches with immersion baptisms. NEVER touch anything plugged into a power outlet while standing in water. So no hard-wired microphones or electric guitars near the baptistry. A pastor in Waco Texas was electrocuted in 2005 when he touched a hard-wired microphone while performing a baptism. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Lake
I've talked to the electrician who helped investigate this tragedy, and it turns out the sound system was properly grounded, but the water had been electrified to around 90 volts by a split in the electric hot water heater element. When they handed him a properly grounded microphone, he was electrocuted on the spot. Apparently the GFCI feeding the water heater was improperly wired so it didn't trip. ANY microphone used in or near a baptistry should be a wireless (RF) type.

[Frank Koenig]

As Mike said. The other reason they can get away with this nonsense is that PURE water is a pretty good dielectric (insulator). I imagine, safety concerns aside, that an electronically commutated (brushless) drill could run for a while in reasonably pure water. The bearings would probably be the first to go. How long carbon brushes would last under water I have no idea, although they did OK in automotive applications subject to splash before all cars went to 3 phase alternators (which still use a pair of slip rings for the rotating field). -F

[Mike Sokol]

Yikes... here's another Q20 video with a 220-volt bulb in a bucket of (distilled?) water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9kXV5szWjA

Remember, distilled water is a good insulator, but as soon as you put your hand in the water, your own body salts will contaminate it enough to shock you. But since the host is insulated from the earth, and the fault current due to the water leakage path is confined inside the bulb socket, there's little chance he would get shocked.

Again, standing in a puddle of non-distilled water and grounding yourself while holding a bulb underwater would result in a serious shock and possibly death by electrocution. It does seem like a crazy way to sell a product since it completely misrepresents how the technology works.

I would give this product and video 4 thumbs down...

[Jay Barracato]

Yikes... here's another Q20 video with a 220-volt bulb in a bucket of (distilled?) water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9kXV5szWjA

Remember, distilled water is a good insulator, but as soon as you put your hand in the water, your own body salts will contaminate it enough to shock you. But since the host is insulated from the earth, and the fault current due to the water leakage path is confined inside the bulb socket, there's little chance he would get shocked.

Again, standing in a puddle of non-distilled water and grounding yourself while holding a bulb underwater would result in a serious shock and possibly death by electrocution. It does seem like a crazy way to sell a product since it completely misrepresents how the technology works.

I would give this product and video 4 thumbs down...

Just to science geek a little, the standard for water purity in the lab setting is measuring its resistance and 18 Mohm cm (less than .1 uS) is considered pure.

Some quick measurements. My distilled water today is 7 uS, soaking my hand in 750 ml for 5 minutes raised the conductivity to 27 uS. In order to get 120V to flow through my light bulb conductivity apparatus required 4g NaCl/500 ml H2O which metered at 216 uS.

(My conductivity apparatus is unable to measure low enough for absolutely pure water. The lowest scale is 2-200 uS.)

[Jay Barracato]

Just to science geek a little, the standard for water purity in the lab setting is measuring its resistance and 18 Mohm cm is considered pure.

Some quick measurements. My distilled water today is 7 uS, soaking my hand in 750 ml for 5 minutes raised the conductivity to 27 uS. In order to get 120V to flow through my light bulb conductivity apparatus required 4g NaCl/500 ml H2O which metered at 216 uS.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[Mike Sokol]

Just to science geek a little, the standard for water purity in the lab setting is measuring its resistance and 18 Mohm cm (less than .1 uS) is considered pure.

An excellent demonstration. Back when I was building guidance systems for nuclear missiles in the 80's, we needed to triple distill our own water for various processes and measured it for purity with a meter similar to what you show. It's been a while, but I think we were looking for 18 meg-ohm/cm water to meet our SOP build standards. 

[John Roberts {JR}]

For the record, the current required to illuminate an incandescent lamp is far more than is considered safe for human exposure.

Videos that suggest it is ever safe to use mains powered hand tools in water is irresponsible.

 JR

[Jay Barracato]

For the record, the current required to illuminate an incandescent lamp is far more than is considered safe for human exposure.

Videos that suggest it is ever safe to use mains powered hand tools in water is irresponsible.

 JR

The human exposure thing is tricky as the possible effects depend on far more than just current. I thought it was neat that the level needed to get the slightest flicker from a 40 watt bulb was 10 times larger than what I would get from soaking an untreated hand in distilled water. You have to consider the resistance of the bulb in series with the resistance of the water. The meter is a far better indicator of conductivity.

It also suggests that my stills are ready for a good cleaning.

I knew an electrician who tested for hot by licking a finger and tapping the black wire. He did it for 30 years with no problem. Then one time it caught his heart at precisely the wrong spot in its rhythm and knocked him flat on his back.

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