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[Bob Leonard]

John,
Two years. That's how long it took me to decide a digital board was what I wanted. Two years. That's how long it took for me to decide on which board I wanted.

The biggest problem you face is not spending the 10K, which by the way is the same limit I put on the cost of a new board, your biggest problem is deciding what features fit your needs now and in the future. I waited, watched as new models from more manufacturers appeared on the market, and tested every board I could get my hands on keeping note of features, build quality, quality of sound, history, and finally support options.

I eventually opted for an Expression, which to many doesn't have some of the features of other boards in it's class, but for my use now and in the future it fills the bill based on my criteria above. And, other than a few changes to features the Expression is for most intents and purposes a Compact in disguise. Same build quality and components, expandable to 66 channels in regardless of fader count (16, 24, 32).

In your case though an Expression may or may not be what fills the bill for you, and what I'm saying in a round about way, is that regardless of flavor compare boards, don't buy a board based on feature count alone, and buy the board that fits your needs, the board that will make you feel good every time you turn it on.

My choices based in order of sound quality, overall feature set capabilities, perceived quality / brand name, available service and support options, and expansion capabilities;

Midas Pro1
Roland M480
Soundcraft Performer
A&H GLD-80
Soundcraft Expression
DM-4800
Roland M200
LS-9
QU-16
X32

[Chris Eddison]

For me (with nearly the same budget) the choice was a Roland M480.

My line of work is regional theatre and there wasn't much out there that was in direct competition.

Reasons for buying;

Gallons of DCA's.
24 faders, and 3 user defined layers - i'm regularly mixing 30 radio mics, without the luxury of being able to do scene recall, so even this is a compromise and is still where the LS9 does well.
Digital snake - you don't have to use it over any length, just keep the stage boxes local if you want, but it works really well.
Great sound quality - particularly if you use the rack mount stage box (I don't) the pre amps sound superb.
Can still carry it under one arm.
A proper 48 input console (not 48 inputs, if you count stereo in's and returns). 48 mono inputs available without any extra cards (just more stage boxes).
Really flexible routing - the tick box matrix for routing is simple and very powerful. For example if you're so inclined you can route an input from one stage box, to an output of another, without having to use up a channel strip - you've got pre amp control for every input, even if it's not assigned to a channel strip - useful for getting something across a stage from one stage box to another without having to eat a channel.
Free multitrack recording drivers - this wasn't the case when I bought, but they've now released the ASIO drivers for download letting you multitrack via a network cable. I use Sonar which is their recommended software, but i've heard of people doing it succesfully in Reaper too. Doesn't work on mac though.
Can pick the console up under one arm.
Excellent support from Roland UK - Spent a lot of time talking to Chris Webster about the console and it was during a phone call to him tin which I asked a lot of questions and got a lot of helpful answers, that I was persuaded to buy it, largely just based on his helpfulness.

All of these, plus the usual ipad remote and PC software, tipped the balance for me.

Things that put me off about other consoles;
LS9 - a good little workhorse and i'm sure we'll see them around for many years to come, but I didn't want to be buying a console towards the end of its' life. Never had issues with the sound quality myself, (yet to walk in to a theatre and think "sounds like an LS9"), but I understand people's concerns.
M7CL - just can't carry the thing! It's a lot of console for only 48 channels.
iLive - Couldn't get my head around the thing. Really don't like a console that has a boot time measured in minutes.
GLD - At the time that I bought, it didn't quite have the full feature set I needed and was very much new and untested.
Soundcraft - the number of new releases scares me. If i'd bought an SI Compact then i'd have sat and watched other consoles come out at a lower price, with a largely similar feature set, and would have wondered just where i'd gone wrong. Didn't like the build quality (push on the surface between the faders and you'll see what I mean - it bends). 32 channels over 30 faders with a layer holding only 2 channels - what? why? Little things like that just made me feel like it hadn't been thought about properly.
X32 - at the time I bought this was still a bit of a joke. I admit that things have changed a little and it appars to have stood the test well, but despite all of this i've got to be really honest and say i'd still have felt a little nervous every time I turned it on - probably for no good reason.
Midas Pro 1 - Just not enough faders.
Digico SD9 - it was a close run thing, but I just didn't see the benefit of the increased spend on this console over the Roland that did the job just as well.

It wouldn't be fair not to mention one or two negatives of the M480 that i've come across (i'm still a massive fan though, would certainly buy it again if I was in the same position).
No subgroups - yep, it's got tonnes of DCA's, and the Matrix is extremely well featured so any channel can be sent to a matrix so you can apply an effect to a bus still, but it's not quite the same. It has gallons of GEQ's and effects though, so this has never really got in my way, I just think it's a shame they left it out.
Occasionally a bit fussy about USB media being left in - if you reboot it with a USB key in (actually moreso if you unplug or plug one in while it's turned off) it can get a little confused on startup. Not a huge issue, just turn it off again and unplug the usb stick - never an issue once a gig is up and running.
If you get one, turn off the touch feature on the faders, it causes them to "grab" very occasionally as you move them. Use the select keys like anybody else!

The M480 is one of those consoles that people just don't consider, yet once they've used one, walk away from with a smile on their face commenting that it's a good little console for the money.

[Brad Weber]

Just wanted to reiterate that what may be "best" is going to be application and personal preference dependent.
 
Some people find electronic scribble strips and color coded channels very advantageous, others are fine without them.  Some like DCAs, others like subgroups and some want both.  Some people use scenes often during performances, others rarely use them or have no trouble doing some manual settings as part of scenes.  Some care about the integrated recording capabilities, others don't.  For some situations digital snake integration is important, for others it is not a factor.  And the list goes on and on.  While getting people's input is valuable, you need to determine what works best for you and your situations rather than what works best for someone else.

[eric lenasbunt]

Is your application install, one-offs, theater, etc?

I ask because foot print may make a difference.

Will you be running it or having others run it as well? Ease of use maybe important.

I have had great success with the Expression boards, but my work is mostly one-offs and church services, etc. so small footprint and nice trailer pack is a must. (The GLD is much larger). I also use the digital snake and it is small and light. Most of these boards listed have that option though.

At this point I would not waste my money on an LS-9, that board is dated and the stage boxes are WAY too much. I'm still perplexed that there has been no real price drop on this desk.

The Roland boards do not do it for me, they are clunky as far as work flow IMHO.
They do have a lot if features though. I don't like that you can only save 2 user profile/show settings at a time. Maybe firmware update has changed that, but last time I worked on one that was the case. That was weak...

Good luck. And I agree with Bob, buy the one that meets your needs AND helps you sleep at night.

[john sanders]

Very subjective question. I think all the above mentioned desks sound fine and all have great features. The best one is the one that does all you need it to do at the price your willing to pay. As mentioned ancillary items will be a large factor to consider. A case, I-Pad, computer and router may set you back another large chunk of change if you don't already have them. A good case start around $500 and goes up from there. In some cases, a really good case may cost more than the item it contains! mark?

Luke,I'm leaning toward the Soundcraft Performer, please share it's shortcomings.

[john sanders]

How many mixes are you planning on running from FOH? Is a personal mixing system a possibility at some point?

usually 4

[john sanders]

John,
Two years. That's how long it took me to decide a digital board was what I wanted. Two years. That's how long it took for me to decide on which board I wanted.

The biggest problem you face is not spending the 10K, which by the way is the same limit I put on the cost of a new board, your biggest problem is deciding what features fit your needs now and in the future. I waited, watched as new models from more manufacturers appeared on the market, and tested every board I could get my hands on keeping note of features, build quality, quality of sound, history, and finally support options.

I eventually opted for an Expression, which to many doesn't have some of the features of other boards in it's class, but for my use now and in the future it fills the bill based on my criteria above. And, other than a few changes to features the Expression is for most intents and purposes a Compact in disguise. Same build quality and components, expandable to 66 channels in regardless of fader count (16, 24, 32).

In your case though an Expression may or may not be what fills the bill for you, and what I'm saying in a round about way, is that regardless of flavor compare boards, don't buy a board based on feature count alone, and buy the board that fits your needs, the board that will make you feel good every time you turn it on.

My choices based in order of sound quality, overall feature set capabilities, perceived quality / brand name, available service and support options, and expansion capabilities;

Midas Pro1
Roland M480
Soundcraft Performer
A&H GLD-80
Soundcraft Expression
DM-4800
Roland M200
LS-9
QU-16
X32

Bob,

Thanks for the very informative response. At this point in time the Performer is my first choice. I like it's features, look and feel. Interesting that you selected this unit; we're also big fans of the APB consoles.

[Jamin Lynch]

Luke,I'm leaning toward the Soundcraft Performer, please share it's shortcomings.

I've been using a Performer for a few months now. Really like it. Very easy to operate. Sound quality is excellent. Not many shortcomings. Only a couple of small things IMO.

I'm don't really like the 22 top layer faders on the Performer 2 (30 on the Performer 3) Why not have 24 and 32? Not a deal breaker though. Just bugs me. I can see 14 faders on the 16 channel Si series due to rack space issues, but a couple more inches wider isn't going to cause space problems on the 24/32 boards.

I guess the DMX may come in handy some day.

Don't like the BNC light connector. Would prefer XLR.

Headphone jack is sometimes hard to get to. The Performer does have a lighted jack though which makes it much easier to find in the dark.

That's all I can think of. None are deal breakers.

[Jason Lucas]

For me (with nearly the same budget) the choice was a Roland M480.

My line of work is regional theatre and there wasn't much out there that was in direct competition.

Reasons for buying;

Gallons of DCA's.
24 faders, and 3 user defined layers - i'm regularly mixing 30 radio mics, without the luxury of being able to do scene recall, so even this is a compromise and is still where the LS9 does well.
Digital snake - you don't have to use it over any length, just keep the stage boxes local if you want, but it works really well.
Great sound quality - particularly if you use the rack mount stage box (I don't) the pre amps sound superb.
Can still carry it under one arm.
A proper 48 input console (not 48 inputs, if you count stereo in's and returns). 48 mono inputs available without any extra cards (just more stage boxes).
Really flexible routing - the tick box matrix for routing is simple and very powerful. For example if you're so inclined you can route an input from one stage box, to an output of another, without having to use up a channel strip - you've got pre amp control for every input, even if it's not assigned to a channel strip - useful for getting something across a stage from one stage box to another without having to eat a channel.
Free multitrack recording drivers - this wasn't the case when I bought, but they've now released the ASIO drivers for download letting you multitrack via a network cable. I use Sonar which is their recommended software, but i've heard of people doing it succesfully in Reaper too. Doesn't work on mac though.
Can pick the console up under one arm.
Excellent support from Roland UK - Spent a lot of time talking to Chris Webster about the console and it was during a phone call to him tin which I asked a lot of questions and got a lot of helpful answers, that I was persuaded to buy it, largely just based on his helpfulness.

All of these, plus the usual ipad remote and PC software, tipped the balance for me.

Things that put me off about other consoles;
LS9 - a good little workhorse and i'm sure we'll see them around for many years to come, but I didn't want to be buying a console towards the end of its' life. Never had issues with the sound quality myself, (yet to walk in to a theatre and think "sounds like an LS9"), but I understand people's concerns.
M7CL - just can't carry the thing! It's a lot of console for only 48 channels.
iLive - Couldn't get my head around the thing. Really don't like a console that has a boot time measured in minutes.
GLD - At the time that I bought, it didn't quite have the full feature set I needed and was very much new and untested.
Soundcraft - the number of new releases scares me. If i'd bought an SI Compact then i'd have sat and watched other consoles come out at a lower price, with a largely similar feature set, and would have wondered just where i'd gone wrong. Didn't like the build quality (push on the surface between the faders and you'll see what I mean - it bends). 32 channels over 30 faders with a layer holding only 2 channels - what? why? Little things like that just made me feel like it hadn't been thought about properly.
X32 - at the time I bought this was still a bit of a joke. I admit that things have changed a little and it appars to have stood the test well, but despite all of this i've got to be really honest and say i'd still have felt a little nervous every time I turned it on - probably for no good reason.
Midas Pro 1 - Just not enough faders.
Digico SD9 - it was a close run thing, but I just didn't see the benefit of the increased spend on this console over the Roland that did the job just as well.

It wouldn't be fair not to mention one or two negatives of the M480 that i've come across (i'm still a massive fan though, would certainly buy it again if I was in the same position).
No subgroups - yep, it's got tonnes of DCA's, and the Matrix is extremely well featured so any channel can be sent to a matrix so you can apply an effect to a bus still, but it's not quite the same. It has gallons of GEQ's and effects though, so this has never really got in my way, I just think it's a shame they left it out.
Occasionally a bit fussy about USB media being left in - if you reboot it with a USB key in (actually moreso if you unplug or plug one in while it's turned off) it can get a little confused on startup. Not a huge issue, just turn it off again and unplug the usb stick - never an issue once a gig is up and running.
If you get one, turn off the touch feature on the faders, it causes them to "grab" very occasionally as you move them. Use the select keys like anybody else!

The M480 is one of those consoles that people just don't consider, yet once they've used one, walk away from with a smile on their face commenting that it's a good little console for the money.

Hey Chris,

I too use a Roland V-mixer, the M-400 to be exact.

The M-480 is a decent step up from it, giving you the ability to set the "tap off" point for direct outputs to be at the top of the channel, instead of pre-eq, which the M-400 is limited to.

I think the V-mixers are fine if you're not using them to mix both FOH and monitors.

Unfortunately, that's what I've been having to use it for. I don't like mixing monitors on it because you can't send a channel to a mix pre-dynamics, which wouldn't be an issue if it was monitors-only, but if you're doing both FOH and monitors it's a pain. The other thing I don't like is a lack of output metering. When you're on any layer other than the AUX layer, the only output meters you see are your main outs. So you can't see how hot you're pushing any of your AUX mixes unless you go to the AUX layer. That's probably my biggest complaint about the console actually.

I would just use the M-48s for monitors but they cost about as much as the console.

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

I own a couple GLD80s.  I think they are the best, most versatile consoles in your price range.

A couple things about them to ponder....

They sound terrific.
They have excellent effects.
They have extremely versatile routing options.
The dynamics processors are great with nice options for compressor types.
The gates are great.
The cat 5 snake works great.
24 channel stage box has 12 outs for plenty of signals for foh and monitors
Mix button is the best way to mix digital in my opinion.
All outputs have graphic EQ without using up your FX!
Any input or output on any fader on any layer with drag and drop assignments!
Nice touch screen.

What they don't do as we'll.....
De-esser uses up FX.
No ducker.
Only 4 local mic pres, would have loved to have 8!
Scene recall has been fixed but still not perfect for my liking if doing musical theatre.

I've been stuck behind an X32 this week mixing monitors.  A combination of wedges and IEMs.  Definitely not the best choice for this application, the GLD is so far superior that there is really no comparison.  The FOH guy has an incredible sounding mix on an X32!  There is no reason why these can be very good mixers for many applications.

Not a fan boy of the soundcrafts but it is only because of my work flow style.  Nothing to do with the capabilities of the consoles.  I have very limited time in front of them so that could change if I got used to them.

I am getting used the X32 but it is difficult to read the monitor with my eyes and i have a hard time finding stuff still.  Some things are not necessarily in what would appear to be the most logical places.  I keep poking at the screen expecting something to happen.  6 band parametric EQ on outputs is very nice but two of the bands are slow to adjust or I am doing something wrong, possibly both.

If you feel like you will ever need flexibility in the future, spend the money on a GLD.  If you can get by with less flexibility but really want to save some cash then the X32 or the soundcrafts are good options.  If you want to over spend and get a lesser console then the Presonus consoles are for you.

As far as sound quality goes, they are all just fine.  If you can hear a significant difference in a loud rock environment then your ears are way better then mine.  In more intimate, lower volume environments I think you may hear some slight differences, mostly in the EQ sections.  Not that any are really better than the others, just different algorithms which you may end up preferring one more than the others.

[ProSoundWeb Community]