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Author Topic: bass guitar picked up by kick mic  (Read 12026 times)

Nathan Vanderslice

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Re: bass guitar picked up by kick mic
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2013, 07:55:33 am »

To answer this may require a chapter: the short version is, the band needs to here at least a little bit of the instrument besides themselves.

usually this isn't really a band: it a bunch of individuals making noise


Can more be done to physically separate the drums and bass?


Usually, no:  a plexi drum shield will give you a lot of isolation and control but many drummers and other band members often hate it because it then sounds different then what they are used to.

Well, it makes sense to me but then again it doesn't. It brings to mind another problem that we dealt with when I was in HS. The squawk, or bitch box, that we used for the greenroom during our shows (theatrical). There were times when in notes, one would come up about too much noise in the greenroom. Well, that came about because of a vicious cycle that came about. Kids would complain that the couldn't hear it, so it got turned up. Then the kids would talk louder so that they could hear each other, and then more complaints about not being able to hear the bitch box, and it got turned up again, and so the cycle got repeated sometimes to the point where you could hear the bitch box in the auditorium. In all fairness though, that was usually only when the door was kept open. But mind you that the greenroom was a full level down from the auditorium. I'd have to say that if they can't hear themselves, or their own instruments, then there may be some fundamental problem. The band is out of balance with each other level wise, the stage is over saturated with sound, or the whole venue is over saturated with sound. With that said, I will say that I am a bit biased here. I don't like rock music. Not so much for the music, but because of the volume. Music doesn't have to be loud to be good. I've heard a few instances, some of them pro jobs where the music is so loud you can't even understand the lyrics of the song, that is IF you can hear them. This to me is not music, but noise. My personal opinion (based mostly from stuff I've seen on television) is that too much emphasis these days is placed on the theatrics,  (pyrotechnics crazy lighting, etc.) of a concert rather than the music. People forget about the basics. Just my little bit of ranting about some of the so called music today.
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David Parker

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Re: bass guitar picked up by kick mic
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2013, 09:21:40 am »

Forgive me if this sounds stupid, but why not just get the bass player to turn down a bit more? In what little work I've done, as well as that I've done with another fellow, there seems to be an ongoing problem with electric guitars playing too loud on stage, sometimes to the point where the band is louder than the house. Can more be done to physically separate the drums and bass?

It's no fun to play if it doesn't feel good on stage. I do everything I can to make things work without cramping their style onstage. Usually if you ask them to turn down, and they don't cuss you out, the volume comes back after a couple of songs anyway. Plus, the band is the one hiring me, so I need to keep them happy or I wont be working at all. They are giving up 20% of what they make to me, so I'm obliged to do the best I can to keep everyone happy.

 As far as physically dividing the instruments, most of the stages we work on barely have enough room to get everything up on there as it is. And most are corner stages which adds to the fun.
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Nathan Vanderslice

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Re: bass guitar picked up by kick mic
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2013, 09:45:14 am »

It's no fun to play if it doesn't feel good on stage. I do everything I can to make things work without cramping their style onstage. Usually if you ask them to turn down, and they don't cuss you out, the volume comes back after a couple of songs anyway. Plus, the band is the one hiring me, so I need to keep them happy or I wont be working at all. They are giving up 20% of what they make to me, so I'm obliged to do the best I can to keep everyone happy.

 As far as physically dividing the instruments, most of the stages we work on barely have enough room to get everything up on there as it is. And most are corner stages which adds to the fun.

This is where trust needs to be between band and sound person. While I'm pretty sure you've already tried this, I'll mention it anyway. While it's true they are the customer, they also may need to be reminded that they are paying you good money to make them sound good and that means that they need to work with you, and trust that what you are asking them to do is in their best interest. One of the most common problems is that the performers forget that what they are hearing is not what the audience hears. There's an old saying that musicians make the worst mixers. Perhaps they need to be reminded that while it is important for them to feel good on stage, that the stage/monitor mix can also affect the quality of the house mix. Hey, the reality is that if you have got one or more persons playing way too loud on stage, you may  not be able to balance the mix in the house. Just my thoughts.
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David Parker

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Re: bass guitar picked up by kick mic
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2013, 10:10:15 am »

This is where trust needs to be between band and sound person. While I'm pretty sure you've already tried this, I'll mention it anyway. While it's true they are the customer, they also may need to be reminded that they are paying you good money to make them sound good and that means that they need to work with you, and trust that what you are asking them to do is in their best interest. One of the most common problems is that the performers forget that what they are hearing is not what the audience hears. There's an old saying that musicians make the worst mixers. Perhaps they need to be reminded that while it is important for them to feel good on stage, that the stage/monitor mix can also affect the quality of the house mix. Hey, the reality is that if you have got one or more persons playing way too loud on stage, you may  not be able to balance the mix in the house. Just my thoughts.

your thoughts are all correct. Keep in mind these folks on stage have been playing onstage for 20 years. I've been mixing for 20 years. After a while a sound man learns to accept certain things that he cannot fix. The hardest part is learning to identify what he can fix and what he can't. Then you work on how to make it sound good anyway. Kinda like a marriage. A couple works on making changes, but some things just aren't going to change, and to have a happy marriage you have to figure out how to compromise. Everything in club land is a compromise. Speaker location, band location, acoustics, you name it. I have to listen to the club manager, the band, and the patrons. It's all a balancing act. I must not be too bad at it, because I get more calls than I can cover.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: bass guitar picked up by kick mic
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2013, 10:52:27 am »

After a while a sound man learns to accept certain things that he cannot fix. The hardest part is learning to identify what he can fix and what he can't. Then you work on how to make it sound good anyway.

Sound man's prayer...

JR
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Cancel the "cancel culture". Do not participate in mob hatred.

andy craig

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Re: bass guitar picked up by kick mic
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2013, 04:52:09 am »

[quote
yes, it's gated and compressed.
[/quote]

What compression ratio, and how much gain reduction from the compressor?

andy.
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David Parker

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Re: bass guitar picked up by kick mic
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2013, 08:50:24 am »

[quote
yes, it's gated and compressed.


What compression ratio, and how much gain reduction from the compressor?

andy.
I don't remember the exact settings, but it's a digital mixer and the scene is saved, so it's the same every time I do this band, so that would be a constant in the scheme of things
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Re: bass guitar picked up by kick mic
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2013, 08:50:24 am »


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