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Author Topic: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions  (Read 9464 times)

Brian Jones

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2013, 02:56:39 am »

I've never done an install but in your shoes I would come here asking if this would work...

First order 2 or 4 new K10 depending on whether it is practical to move 2 of them between DJ vs live act shows.

When these arrive, send out the existing K10s for reburbishing. If the original box and packing is unavailable, you'll have fresh new boxes.

Install 2 K10 in the middle long wall of the room on wall mounts or flown in a way that they can be turned to face away from the stage/booth being used. Of course, hire a qualified rigger to do any flying.

If you bought 4 new speakers, install them at either end but not in corners. Position them like you would for a 20 x 20 room facing the far wall straight on. In other words, a few feet from either wall.

Now, when the DJ is performing, turn off the speakers by the stage and vice versa (or if you opted for four speakers, just move them to the side where the performance is happening.

Sell the rmx2450 since it isn't being used.

One more thing. The speakers in the middle of the room should be on a delay of roughly 25/1140 of a second if I remember the constant right assuming 50 feet total and they are placed exactly half way between the speakers at either end.

Sent from my SPH-M930 using Tapatalk 2

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Marjan Milosevic

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2013, 05:11:37 am »

Well, i must say i have heard a few extremely good sounding 4 corners setup clubs. But the equipment was miles ahead of what is discussing here.

Jon C Thomas

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2013, 10:57:51 am »

Hey guys,

Looking to upgrade tops in a small club in Boston.
We have a smaller sized room.  Approx 50' x 20'.  All dance space with a stage in the back.
We've currently have 4 QSC K10's which aren't doing the job.  They've been installed before I got there about 4 years ago. I've had to replace 2 and one just developed a cabinet rattle last week.  I had a sit down with the owner and we decided to upgrade.  Ditch the powered for passive.
4 in each corner that are powerful enough to fill the room up with nice clear sound.

We also have 2 Earthquakes being powered by a Crown 4002 amp.

We have another QSC amp, 2450 sitting in the rack not doing anything so ideally I'd like to hook that up to 1 or 2 of the new tops.  I realize it's not very powerful so if it can't be used then it can't be used.

We have a sound guy coming in to install it all but I'd really like to research this on my own to make sure we are getting the best we can get for the space sound wise.

Of course price range is always an issue.  So with that in mind, I narrowed it down to the Yorkville NX600's.

If anyone would like to chime in on their opinions, approvals, disapprovals, and suggestions it would be VERY helpful for me.

Thanks!!
Susan

I hope you were high passing the K10's. A passive setup that can match the fidelity/processing of a active box is not cheap. I would look at the EV ZX5 for something a bit punchier than the K10's with the budget you have.
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Scott Wagner

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2013, 11:34:11 am »

I hope you were high passing the K10's. A passive setup that can match the fidelity/processing of a active box is not cheap. I would look at the EV ZX5 for something a bit punchier than the K10's with the budget you have.
Before we start spitting out choices for new equipment, let's consider a deployment strategy that would be benficial in this space.  Then we can start to look at which equipment might fit within those constraints (coverage, output, budget, etc.).  I'm busy today, but perhaps someone else can begin to model this (considering the location of the dance floor, stage, and most importantly the bar) to determine optimal locations for the mains and the subs to provide acceptable coverage in the space at acceptable levels without blasting the bar (it's all pointless if people can't hear drink orders).  Then we can look at which speakers might meet these needs.  Until then, it's all an uninformed guess.  It may very well be that the existing K10s and subs might do the trick if deployed properly.  Now, I'm off for some grandbaby time and a gig.
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Scott Wagner
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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2013, 12:21:33 pm »

Before we start spitting out choices for new equipment, let's consider a deployment strategy that would be benficial in this space.  Then we can start to look at which equipment might fit within those constraints (coverage, output, budget, etc.).

Exactly. 

This situation is typical of the compromise between the desire to "rock the crowd"  by providing visceral sound and the practical consideration of being able to do business at the bar.

The bartenders/servers really shouldn't be subjected to near deafening sound levels, even for part of their shift...much less 4-8 hours.

One suggestion was a two-system approach with a DJ system on one end and a live sound system on the stage end.  This is verging on a zoned system which might in the end be the best of both worlds although the implementation will be more complex and likely cost more than the anticipated upgrade.

And then there's the "DJ destruction factor" to be considered.  The damage to the current equipment is likely traceable to DJ overdrive syndrome.

So it gets fairly complex and like usual is not subject to a solution of "the right speakers".
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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2013, 03:44:25 pm »

I took a whole mess of pictures of the space last night. 

Bose sticks with a Dominator?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 03:52:18 pm by dick rees »
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2013, 04:16:37 pm »

Susan, based on this picture http://s220.photobucket.com/user/scelia/media/20130929_022730-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8 it appears some of the speakers are hung using chains attached to the speaker handles.

In general, speaker handles are not sturdy enough (rated) to be used to hang the speakers.  This is an unsafe practice with potentially lethal consequences (i.e. someone might die when the speaker falls).

If these speakers are really hanging by chains from their handles, you should inform the club owner of the potential and likely safety problem and ask them to have a qualified engineer / rigger evaluate the setup.

This appears to be an accident, and a negligence lawsuit, waiting to happen.

If the owner doesn't take immediate action, personally I'd walk away from the club.
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Mark McFarlane
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Turn down what's too loud.

Susan Celia

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2013, 04:39:49 pm »

Susan, based on this picture http://s220.photobucket.com/user/scelia/media/20130929_022730-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8 it appears some of the speakers are hung using chains attached to the speaker handles.

In general, speaker handles are not sturdy enough (rated) to be used to hang the speakers.  This is an unsafe practice with potentially lethal consequences (i.e. someone might die when the speaker falls).

If these speakers are really hanging by chains from their handles, you should inform the club owner of the potential and likely safety problem and ask them to have a qualified engineer / rigger evaluate the setup.

This appears to be an accident, and a negligence lawsuit, waiting to happen.

If the owner doesn't take immediate action, personally I'd walk away from the club.


They are not being hung at the handles... there are hung by attached metal loops that QSC sells to be hung like this.
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Susan Celia

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2013, 04:41:45 pm »


They are not being hung at the handles... there are hung by attached metal loops that QSC sells to be hung like this.

I apologize.. after looking at the picture again you are talking about the Yamaha's.  Those are going to be taken down.

Thanks for the heads up. 
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2013, 04:41:45 pm »


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