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Author Topic: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions  (Read 9309 times)

Tim Perry

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2013, 10:43:12 pm »

I apologize.. after looking at the picture again you are talking about the Yamaha's.  Those are going to be taken down.

Thanks for the heads up.

The K-10's need to be tilted down more ... about 45 degrees of tilt would be appropriate. 
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Brad Weber

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2013, 07:29:26 am »

]
approx 50 feet x 20 feet w/ 12 foot high ceilings.  The four speakers are angled slightly downward.
As stated the room is rectangular in shape.  The DJ booth is on one of the 20ft ends.. which looks straight out and down to the stage on the opposite end.  To the left mid way on one of the 50ft walls there's a bar that covers almost 1/2 that wall.  So keeping that in mind.. Bar staff needs to be able to hear drink orders well enough.  12 foot high ceilings..
As for budget we have about $4-$5G's to work with.  There are also 2 CV Earthquakes on either end of the 20 ft walls.  One next to the stage.  One next to the DJ booth.
Is the same speaker system supposed to support the stage on one end and and the DJ booth on the other or do those two uses employ two separate systems?  Do all four speakers receive the same signal or are they two 'stereo' pairs?  Similar with the subs, do they both get the same signal?  How do you crossover between the mains?  Do you have any other system processing?
 
You mentioned having a 'sound guy' coming in to do the install.  What is their background and experience?  Should you maybe be involving them more in the system design and equipment selection?  And are they or you going to be responsible for the system setup, testing, tuning, documentation, etc.?
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Susan Celia

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2013, 01:48:22 pm »

]Is the same speaker system supposed to support the stage on one end and and the DJ booth on the other or do those two uses employ two separate systems?  Do all four speakers receive the same signal or are they two 'stereo' pairs?  Similar with the subs, do they both get the same signal?  How do you crossover between the mains?  Do you have any other system processing?
 
You mentioned having a 'sound guy' coming in to do the install.  What is their background and experience?  Should you maybe be involving them more in the system design and equipment selection?  And are they or you going to be responsible for the system setup, testing, tuning, documentation, etc.?

The speakers facing the stage will be taken down and replaced with 2 QSCk10's that we will be removing from the main system with the upgrade.  The stage speakers are separate to the main system and work through Utility Out on the Mackie board.
As for the four speaker connections... The two near the stage are daisy chained together.  And the two next to the booth are also daisy chained together.  If you look at the crossover/compressor picture I posted you'll see the settings for them.

In one of my posts I had several pictures of the room and our amp rack with descriptions.

The main reason for my original feedback suggestions was for what types of speakers would be best for that room/size/etc.  Just trying to get others opinions so I'm well informed on making the best decision for us.

I'm a bit old school and prefer to have passive over powered but after speaking with a few people I'm realizing cost wise we may have to go the powered route again. 

I'm open to it, I just want to make sure it's the best decision!
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Brad Weber

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2013, 02:52:16 am »

The speakers facing the stage will be taken down and replaced with 2 QSCk10's that we will be removing from the main system with the upgrade.  The stage speakers are separate to the main system and work through Utility Out on the Mackie board.
As for the four speaker connections... The two near the stage are daisy chained together.  And the two next to the booth are also daisy chained together.  If you look at the crossover/compressor picture I posted you'll see the settings for them.
But do you use only only the two speakers and sub by stage for the stage and the other two speakers anbd sub by the DJ for the DJ or do you use both sets of speakers, and both subs, for either use?  They flown speakers seem to have been installed as left/right pairs but are being run mono, so probably some resulting combfiltering, but using both pairs and/or both subs could result in some interesting effects where the coverage of the speakers cross one another.

In one of my posts I had several pictures of the room and our amp rack with descriptions.
I looked at those and on thing I noted is that unless it is under the security cover I did not see any equalization beyond what is on the mixer.  If you don't have it then better EQ for the mains and monitors might be something to consider as part of any upgrades.
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Nate Armstrong

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2013, 12:41:59 pm »

- This may get torn to shreds by others here but this is my opinion

I have been using a mobile k10, kw122, kw153, ksub, kw181 setups for a while now, both for band setups and for dj setups.  I am not aware of the amount of patrons you have in that space. To me it seems you already have enough rig for that room. In my opinion if the gain structure was set correctly you should have enough.

the DJ mixer running in to the mackie mixer.  It should really only be set at a master volume of around 2 or 3 and not 8 -10(max). Unlike what most djs would think/do.  If the Dj's can not comply with that, I would use the pad on the Mackie mixer and another inline pad so you can get a decent (lower)  level going into the mackie mixer, instead of a super hot clipping signal.  But ideally it would be better to have the dj mixer master set to a low setting.   Having a nice Unity signal going into the Mackie channel fader would be my start.


I would couple the 2 earthquake subs near the band stage. feed them a signal of 100 hz to 35 hz ( maybe even bump that up to as high as 40 hz depending on the djs).

I would then try and angle the k10's near the band stage pointing down a little more.  Make sure they are on the k10 setting is "ext Sub"  and have the gain around 12 - 1 oclock . this could be raised as long as its below clipping.
I would also have the front led light setting to show Clipping light.

I would then Use the other 2 k10's from the dj area (with the same setting as your mains) pole mounted to the Ksubs as the monitor rig for the dj. Strike them and use them as monitor for the band when needed. A good monitor rig May help keep the dj in the correct levels instead of constantly pushing it higher and higher.


If you feel the  2 hanging K10's are not enough sound. I would hang the other 2 K10s in front of the band stage horizontally (this way and Not this way | ) Like a monitor / fold back position near the center of the band stage



You have a lot of hard surfaces in that space.  I would also try and get some acoustical treatment on the walls and in the corners of the room.  The floor would be nice as well but I dont see that happening on a dance floor that needs to be cleaned.

I would also get a eq for the system.  Or even better a drive rack 260 with brick wall limiter.


Another alternative to your current speaker setup would be to have the subs on each side of the band stage and a kw153 on top of each sub.  use the k10's as monitor duty where needed.
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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2013, 12:41:59 pm »


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