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Author Topic: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions  (Read 9434 times)

Mike Sullivan

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2013, 05:09:24 pm »

No reason why the K10's shouldn't work in that room.  Two per side may present a bit of an issue though, if I remember right they are 90* boxes, so there may be some phasing and such.  I'd say as others suggested, one in each corner with the far speakers on a separate bus that can be disengaged for live shows. 
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2013, 05:15:55 pm »

  I'd say as others suggested, one in each corner with the far speakers on a separate bus that can be disengaged for live shows.

I don't see where anyone recommended keeping the "four corners" model.  Quite the contrary.  Three of us specifically said not to do it.

Let's see how much height there is to work with before making random, ill-informed guesses.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2013, 05:35:10 pm »

I don't see where anyone recommended keeping the "four corners" model.  Quite the contrary.  Three of us specifically said not to do it.

Let's see how much height there is to work with before making random, ill-informed guesses.
The whole idea of the speakers facing in is to "surround the dancers" with sound.

Nice thought-except that they have no idea how sound actually travels/works etc and what you end up with is a whole "mush" of sound-that sounds different everyplace.

Every time I have heard that sort of setup-it is just nasty.  A 2 source approach is much better.

If sound behaved like light-then the "surround" approach would work just fine.

And before anyone starts thinking about home theatre surround-that is a TOTALLY different situation.  Because there are DIFFERENT sounds coming from the different speakers-and you don't have the cancellations you do when you have the same sound from different speakers arriving at different times-which causes the whole problem.

If you can provide the dancers with GOOD sound-that is FAR better than "surrounding them" with crappy sound.

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Scott Wagner

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2013, 05:38:27 pm »

The way the room was initially set up was one speaker in each corner of the room and two smack dab in the center of the room facing but to but of each other.  It was nothing but high end with a million dead spots.  Lots of high flying frequencies making the music sound crappy.  So I removed the two in the center after one had died on us.  It sounded much better but still not powerful enough for the space. 
A speaker in each corner is bad enough.  Add those other two (which you hadn't mentioned before), and it couldn't help but sound bad.  With all of those speakers fighting each other, the DJ cranks the volume trying to fight physics, and blows things up.  Provide the dimensions that Dick is asking for, and then we can begin to provide some real advice.  The club owner is lucky you joined the party.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2013, 05:42:28 pm »


If having them in the corners is not the right way to place the speakers then what would be?  The room is as rectangular as it can get.
If the room is really rectangular-then there is no way you are covering the space with on e speaker in each corner anyway.

I will ask again-what was the design/thought approach to deciding that the particular loudspeaker listed was right for the job?

In any "design" there HAS to be a target to shoot for.  Without a target-how do you have any idea if you "hit" it? or even where to "shoot"?

The approach is this-Given a particular space (which we have no idea of), I need a specific SPL (of which we have no idea), and it should try (notice I said TRY) to fit within a particular budget (of which we have a little idea) but don't know where the speaker in question would be purchased from -so that target budget is vague at best.

Without some decent details-there is no way to get a USABLE answer.

Unless you are just wanting people to agree with you-but how can they agree (at least with a sense of accuracy) without any details.

It is like buying a car and you have decided on a particular model-yet we have no idea what sort of gas mileage you need-how much payload you need to carry-how many passengers you need to carry-how fast it needs to go and so forth.

The suitability for a particular purpose is completely unknown-because we don't the "purpose".

Sorry to be so blunt-that this is simply the way it is.

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Susan Celia

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2013, 06:23:04 pm »



What are the dimensions? Length, width and (most importantly) height.

approx 50 feet x 20 feet w/ 12 foot high ceilings.  The four speakers are angled slightly downward.
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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2013, 06:36:28 pm »

approx 50 feet x 20 feet w/ 12 foot high ceilings.  The four speakers are angled slightly downward.

Where is the stage?  Where do the DJ's work from?  What sound level do you desire?

12' is a fair height.  Taller is better.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 07:04:15 pm by dick rees »
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Susan Celia

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2013, 07:16:06 pm »

Where is the stage?  Where do the DJ's work from?  What sound level do you desire?

12' is a fair height.  Taller is better.

As stated the room is rectangular in shape.  The DJ booth is on one of the 20ft ends.. which looks straight out and down to the stage on the opposite end.  To the left mid way on one of the 50ft walls there's a bar that covers almost 1/2 that wall.  So keeping that in mind.. Bar staff needs to be able to hear drink orders well enough.  12 foot high ceilings..
As for budget we have about $4-$5G's to work with.  There are also 2 CV Earthquakes on either end of the 20 ft walls.  One next to the stage.  One next to the DJ booth.

I can't thank you guys enough for the input and trying to help.  And thanks for the compliment for me trying to make the room better.  I'm trying to keep myself educated as best I can and you guys are helping out big time.  So THANK YOU!

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Dennis Wiggins

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2013, 09:27:43 pm »

That's where I was going with my questions about deployment.  Find out whoever OK'd the "four corners" approach and hit them with something hard.

Mr. Rees,

In the late 70s, every Disco had that arrangement!  It was usually a 15" woofer with 3 Piezo tweets in each corner, all pointing to the center of the dance floor.  It sounded great after about 4 (or was it 5) of those cool, curvey, Michelobs. 

The eye candy was awesome, all lined up like that.

Of course, one by one, the piezos gave way to dullness, and the woofers went click, click, quiet.

Shortly after that, we all started to actually listen to what was being cranked out, and started using 2-way tops with separate woofer cabs , using a crossover at about 100hz.  Wow! what a difference, for the next 3-1/2 decades.

-Wigs
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Tim Perry

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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2013, 01:45:57 am »

approx 50 feet x 20 feet w/ 12 foot high ceilings.  The four speakers are angled slightly downward.

Just my opinion, but it doesn't seem to me you are gaining much by the NX600 approach.

A single 2ch amp wired to 8 ohm speakers in 4 corners. 

The speakers are about 500 'real' watts (or 1000W Yorkvilles mystical program power)

If you put the QSC2450  that's 750W per ch or about 375 per speaker (minus cable losses).

Given that DJs seem to have thrashed the K rig, my best guess is this will be driven into hard clipping in short order.

Hopefully the 100hz high pass filter were engaged  on the k-10's. Also hopefully there is a active crossover for the amp that feeds the earthquakes.

I would suggest moving to the QSC KQ153 for this application.

Should you wish to sell one or more working K-10's keep me in mind. I could use at least one more.
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Re: Upgrade tops in small club - Suggestions
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2013, 01:45:57 am »


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