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[Samuel Rees]

Jesse (OP) -

Has this discussion helped you to narrow down your search? Right now we're discussing boards from $2000 to $9000.

A few questions will eliminate a few boards and make your decision much easier in the "sub $10k" area.

1) Do you now or might you in the future need more than 32 mic pres?

2) Do you want a digital or an analog snake?

3) Do you want to at some point use a church friendly personal mixing system like Aviom? Would you need to multitrack record and use
this system at the same time?

4) How do your available funds compare with what you'd ideally desire?

Answering these questions could easily narrow you down to one or two desks or configurations.

[Jesse gray]

Jesse (OP) -

Has this discussion helped you to narrow down your search? Right now we're discussing boards from $2000 to $9000.

A few questions will eliminate a few boards and make your decision much easier in the "sub $10k" area.

1) Do you now or might you in the future need more than 32 mic pres?


2) Do you want a digital or an analog snake?

3) Do you want to at some point use a church friendly personal mixing system like Aviom? Would you need to multitrack record and use
this system at the same time?

4) How do your available funds compare with what you'd ideally desire?

#1. I don't know. On average definitely not, but I want to make sure that if we start booking shows ( which is why I am wanting to upgrade) that can easily use up 32 channels depending on what type of music it is.

#2. I would like a digital snake.



#3. No, I personally do not like mixing systems, I would much rather either mix monitors or IEM's
From either FOH or have a second board for monitors.and yes if we ever did get a system like avioms, we would need to record as well as use the system. ideally I would like some coaxial monitors if the band didn't want IEM's, or 8-9 Shure PSM 900's ( or something similar at that price range.)

#4. I would say I had a third to a half of what I would like. I have been looking at the lower end  Midas Pro series as well as the Soundcraft VI and ILive boards which is ideally what I would like. I then would ideally like to have the expansion cards and digital boxes as well, which adds on to the cost even more.

[Brad Weber]

Not if you have to purchase a device anyway--but if you want to set it up so that a musician is controlling an aux mix from his/her/its device, then iPhones are a lot more common than iPads.

I've heard too many stories of people upgrading apps without coordinating, phones being damaged/lost/left at home, low or dead batteries, etc. to recommend that churches rely on personal phones or tablets for any important operation.  If people prefer to use their own devices then that's one thing, but you probably want to make sure you have a backup plan.
 

#1. I don't know. On average definitely not, but I want to make sure that if we start booking shows ( which is why I am wanting to upgrade) that can easily use up 32 channels depending on what type of music it is.

#2. I would like a digital snake.

#3. No, I personally do not like mixing systems, I would much rather either mix monitors or IEM's
From either FOH or have a second board for monitors.and yes if we ever did get a system like avioms, we would need to record as well as use the system. ideally I would like some coaxial monitors if the band didn't want IEM's, or 8-9 Shure PSM 900's ( or something similar at that price range.)

#4. I would say I had a third to a half of what I would like. I have been looking at the lower end  Midas Pro series as well as the Soundcraft VI and ILive boards which is ideally what I would like. I then would ideally like to have the expansion cards and digital boxes as well, which adds on to the cost even more.

Is 'booking shows' part of the vision of the church and applicable to both venues?  Not knowing the type of acts potentially involved, may tech riders be relevant?  Is the mixer the only aspect of the sound systems this would affect or are you also addressing other areas?  Are you addressing related aspects such as power distribution, stage access, lighting and so on?  What about public performance rights and any potential insurance and/or security issues (e.g. damage caused by or to other's equipment, theft of other's equipment from your facility, venue access control, etc.)?
 
A digital snake would affect the mixer options and the budget, so is there some specific reason for wanting it or is it just something you'd like?  Would it be replacing or in addition to the existing analog snake?  Do you want a digital snake in both venues or just one?  How do you plan to implement a digital snake, would you have one large digital stage box with everything run to it, one digital stage box to either side of the stage, a digital snake stage box with analog stage boxes off it or what?
 
Monitor systems is one area you might want to look at the impact on both worship use and outside performers.  IEMs or a personal mix systems may be beneficial for worship use by possibly helping lower the levels on stage but may not be practical for external users or acts, so do you support both stage monitors and IEM/personal monitor systems or can you work with stage monitors for all uses?
 
What is the basis for the budget?  Was there some general concept developed for which a budget was determined?  Was there a proposed equipment or system solution used as a reference?  Or was it essentially randomly assigned?
 
Not a technical issue but I noted what seem to be a number of personal preferences and goals seeming to affect the direction being taken.  Not knowing the situation or your role, are you the only party providing whose input matters or should the systems reflect the goals and desires of the general church leadership and the church overall?  Nothing personal, just too many experiences with individuals approaching systems as being theirs rather than the church's only to then have those individuals leave the church shortly after the system was installed or in some cases even before the installation was finished.  That rarely works to the church's benefit so I thought it should be mentioned just to make sure that may not be happening here.

[Jesse gray]

I've heard too many stories of people upgrading apps without coordinating, phones being damaged/lost/left at home, low or dead batteries, etc. to recommend that churches rely on personal phones or tablets for any important operation.  If people prefer to use their own devices then that's one thing, but you probably want to make sure you have a backup plan.
 

Is 'booking shows' part of the vision of the church and applicable to both venues?  Not knowing the type of acts potentially involved, may tech riders be relevant?  Is the mixer the only aspect of the sound systems this would affect or are you also addressing other areas?  Are you addressing related aspects such as power distribution, stage access, lighting and so on?  What about public performance rights and any potential insurance and/or security issues (e.g. damage caused by or to other's equipment, theft of other's equipment from your facility, venue access control, etc.)?
 
A digital snake would affect the mixer options and the budget, so is there some specific reason for wanting it or is it just something you'd like?  Would it be replacing or in addition to the existing analog snake?  Do you want a digital snake in both venues or just one?  How do you plan to implement a digital snake, would you have one large digital stage box with everything run to it, one digital stage box to either side of the stage, a digital snake stage box with analog stage boxes off it or what?
 
Monitor systems is one area you might want to look at the impact on both worship use and outside performers.  IEMs or a personal mix systems may be beneficial for worship use by possibly helping lower the levels on stage but may not be practical for external users or acts, so do you support both stage monitors and IEM/personal monitor systems or can you work with stage monitors for all uses?
 
What is the basis for the budget?  Was there some general concept developed for which a budget was determined?  Was there a proposed equipment or system solution used as a reference?  Or was it essentially randomly assigned?
 
Not a technical issue but I noted what seem to be a number of personal preferences and goals seeming to affect the direction being taken.  Not knowing the situation or your role, are you the only party providing whose input matters or should the systems reflect the goals and desires of the general church leadership and the church overall?  Nothing personal, just too many experiences with individuals approaching systems as being theirs rather than the church's only to then have those individuals leave the church shortly after the system was installed or in some cases even before the installation was finished.  That rarely works to the church's benefit so I thought it should be mentioned just to make sure that may not be happening here.

I believe that booking shows is becoming a more integral part of where we are heading. It is applicable to both venues and genres would change from singer/songwriter to metal acts. Tech riders are relevant . I haven't gotten one from a band yet, but when we rent out our spaces for events i.e. Tom Jackson bootcamps ( the guy who coaches taylor swift etc.) they send them to us.

The board is the first aspect I am addressing for system upgrades. We just purchased new tops and won't be spending more on speakers  for a little bit. I am planning out a budget and plan for the next couple of years to phase in better equipment such as  wedges, mics, cables, etc.

Yes power distribution and lighting is also in the grand scheme but is not as big of a focus.

I would like a single stage box in the smaller building, and several in the larger venue(i can work with sub analog snakes in the larger venue) They are something i would like, but they are also kind of a necessity because we are lacking in outputs on both stages.

As far as monitors I would like both wedges and IEM's. I would prefer something like the radian apex-1200 or Danley's SM LPM. Then I would like Shure PSM 900's or something in that price range in both buildings as well. I really want versatility because in the smaller building getting the stage volume down as much as possible is a big priority.

there was no plan for the budget, I am coming up with one for other changes, but for the board that is the number i could run with.

there are a lot of my personal preferences in here because I am the only sound guy that has vision to upgrade what we have. I run everything by my boss, and he agrees with most of what i bring to him. I am not going to be here very much longer, but I am trying to leave it in good condition, with a plan to make it great.         

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