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Author Topic: Grounding to the neutral bar?  (Read 21034 times)

Jamin Lynch

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Grounding to the neutral bar?
« on: September 19, 2013, 12:03:34 pm »

Often we have to tie into the closest breaker panel due to lack of adequate power or no disconnect. We will insert our own set of breakers but often there is no separate ground bar in the panel. Is it "generally" OK to connect the ground wire to the neutral bar?

Thanks

Getting all my electrical questions out of the way today.  :) :
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Rob Spence

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Re: Grounding to the neutral bar?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2013, 12:18:02 pm »


Often we have to tie into the closest breaker panel due to lack of adequate power or no disconnect. We will insert our own set of breakers but often there is no separate ground bar in the panel. Is it "generally" OK to connect the ground wire to the neutral bar?

Thanks

Getting all my electrical questions out of the way today.  :) :

If there is no ground buss, examine the neutral buss to see if other grounds are connected there. If so, I would use it but would also check to see if there is a neutral feeder and a heavy ground connected.


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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Grounding to the neutral bar?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2013, 12:42:23 pm »

Often we have to tie into the closest breaker panel due to lack of adequate power or no disconnect. We will insert our own set of breakers but often there is no separate ground bar in the panel. Is it "generally" OK to connect the ground wire to the neutral bar?

Thanks

Getting all my electrical questions out of the way today.  :) :
Ask the licensed electrician doing the electrical tie-in for you.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Grounding to the neutral bar?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2013, 12:45:37 pm »

Ask the licensed electrician doing the electrical tie-in for you.

There is never an electrician on site. This usually comes up at clubs therefore we have to do the tie in ourselves.

Plus I don't trust some of these local "home boys" that call themselves electricians.
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Grounding to the neutral bar?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2013, 12:47:46 pm »

There is never an electrician on site. This usually comes up at clubs therefore we have to do the tie in ourselves.

This whole thing demonstrates the problem with adding on to someone elses property.

Is the panel a main panel or a sub panel?

Where are the other grounds landing in the panel?
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Grounding to the neutral bar?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2013, 12:51:50 pm »

This whole thing demonstrates the problem with adding on to someone elses property.

Is the panel a main panel or a sub panel?

Where are the other grounds landing in the panel?

It varies. No 2 clubs are the same. Sometimes the main panel sometimes a sub panel. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a sub panel requires a ground bar...but that doesn't mean there is one.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Grounding to the neutral bar?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2013, 12:56:46 pm »

There is never an electrician on site. This usually comes up at clubs therefore we have to do the tie in ourselves.

Plus I don't trust some of these local "home boys" that call themselves electricians.
Nonetheless, you are not legally qualified to do what you are doing.  By touching anything other than a cord-and-plug system, you are opening yourself up to the whole liability of the building's electrical system.  If anything bad happens, you will be sued and you will be blamed - even if the fault, fire, or injury happened due to some other pre-existing condition.

The right answer is to work with the venue to install receptacles adequate to your power needs before you get there, or reduce your show's demans to meet the available power.  It should not cost very much to add a receptacle near the panel if there are free breaker slots, or rent a generator.

This isn't 1975 anymore.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Grounding to the neutral bar?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2013, 01:11:16 pm »

Nonetheless, you are not legally qualified to do what you are doing.  By touching anything other than a cord-and-plug system, you are opening yourself up to the whole liability of the building's electrical system.  If anything bad happens, you will be sued and you will be blamed - even if the fault, fire, or injury happened due to some other pre-existing condition.

The right answer is to work with the venue to install receptacles adequate to your power needs before you get there, or reduce your show's demans to meet the available power.  It should not cost very much to add a receptacle near the panel if there are free breaker slots, or rent a generator.

This isn't 1975 anymore.

And I'm sure I'll get sued when somebody trips over the extension cords I'll have to run all over the place.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 01:18:15 pm by Jamin Lynch »
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Grounding to the neutral bar?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2013, 01:23:20 pm »

And I'm sure I'll get sued when somebody trips over the extension cords I'll have to run all over the place.
Your liability insurance should cover that part of it.  Your liability insurance is less likely to cover your doing illegal electrical work and death or fire potentially resulting from that.

It's up to you to do whatever you decide is worth the risk, but we can't on a public forum condone what you're doing, no matter how many times you've done it before without apparent issue.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 01:25:56 pm by TJ (Tom) Cornish »
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Grounding to the neutral bar?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2013, 01:32:05 pm »

And I'm sure I'll get sued when somebody trips over the extension cords I'll have to run all over the place.

IF (and that is a mighty big IF) I were actually persuaded to pull the front off of a panel and I didn't immediately recognize how it was wired OR the way it was wired didn't follow standard practices, I am not going to make any changes.

Your basically asking how to fix a f@$#ed up situation.

If someone used the wrong type of panel and instead of a ground bar has 14 grounds twisted together and shoved in the corner of the box, do you really want to be relying on that for your safety? Tying in the neutral and ground at a subpanel is just asking for a potential difference on your ground. That will cause its own bunch of problems.
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Jay Barracato

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Grounding to the neutral bar?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2013, 01:32:05 pm »


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