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Author Topic: 50amp outlets  (Read 28284 times)

Jamin Lynch

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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2013, 09:59:42 pm »


I don't understand why the big tadoo about these 50 amp outlets. It's a 3 wire grounded circuit carrying 250 volts at (up to) 50A. It's a large version of a 120 volt Edison, it's an outlet that has been in use for about 75 years, and the last time I checked the people in my neighborhood weren't bursting into flames every time they cooked dinner or dried their clothes.
 
I agree with you Greg concerning the smaller #12 cable, however, if a distro using the proper cable and configured with the proper breakers were plugged into one of these sockets I would have no reason to NOT use the outlet as a source.

It wasn't so much the old style 50amp plug that was the problem, although I didn't really want to plug into it. But if that's all there is and it checked out OK, then we may have used it? We didn't have that type plug with us.  The real unsafe part was more the 100ft 12ga SJ cable we were given. 

At the time all we had was the correct set of breakers, the correct size cord for the job and a store bought, UL listed (not homemade) distro.

Unsafe?? I don't think so.


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Jamin Lynch

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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2013, 10:11:14 pm »


Cailen,
 
Not wearing a rubber is "unsafe". Properly building a distro or wiring your house without hiring an electrician is NOT "unsafe". I have seen more hack jobs done by electricians then any sound guy who knows he could be killed doing the job wrong. electricians don't have that fear. They tend to feel anything they do is safe, or safe enough to get by.

Thank you Bob. Hit the nail on the head.

I don't know how some electricians around here pass the test!!

Do all you nay sayers really think I'm not going to take every precaution? We use electrical gloves, insulated tools, shut down the main breaker, ect. I don't want to "burn down the building" and loose thousands of dollars of equipment and my income.

It's not unsafe if you do it properly.
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2013, 10:51:42 pm »

It wasn't so much the old style 50amp plug that was the problem, although I didn't really want to plug into it. But if that's all there is and it checked out OK, then we may have used it? We didn't have that type plug with us.  The real unsafe part was more the 100ft 12ga SJ cable we were given. 

At the time all we had was the correct set of breakers, the correct size cord for the job and a store bought, UL listed (not homemade) distro.

Unsafe?? I don't think so.

I'm sure you did everything to the best of your ability, unfortunately all of your candid rants about hack electricians aren't going to do much to sway an inspector if he happens to find out what you have done - regardless of whether it's a random inspection (which in my experience does happen) or because something went wrong and he is there to investigate an accident.

After spending years doing mobile production where rules are a little... fast and loose, I've spent the last few years as audio technician in a medium-ish sized theatre and my attitude towards standards, safety and liability have changed radically. If something is illegal, regardless of whether or not it is inherently safe, it is treated the same as though it is unsafe. Hell, we reprimanded a stage carp today for straddling the top of a ladder, he didn't get hurt but it is still against best practice and venue policy.

For those in Ontario, look up Entertainment Industry Power Technician and the proposed regulations surrounding it. Times are a changing...
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 01:22:13 am by Spenser Hamilton »
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2013, 11:09:27 pm »

It might be against the rules (or law perhaps) but that doesn't make it unsafe.


Steve.
You're going to have to talk faster than that to suggest that tying in via breakers is safe. Does the panel cover fit back on?  I'm sure you used a correct knockout, clamp, bushing, strain relief, et al to ensure the cable can't be pulled out?  You de-energize the panel or wear arc-flash gear?  What happens if you happen to bump something and either knock more breakers out, or losen something?

Can lower be temporarily tied in to a service panel in a safe and up to code manner?  Yes. Are there some folks who are not licensed capable of doing this?  Yes.   The fact that there are unqualified licensed electricians is immaterial.   

I don't think I have to go very far out on a limb to say that the vast majority of amateur tie-ins are sub-par, dangerous, and a liability nightmare.

There is more to this than sticking a breaker in a box.
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Rob Spence

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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2013, 12:02:22 am »

Of course if the OP had advanced the gig, he could have
- asked them to put in a 4 pin connector (heck, I would supply it if it were me)
- or brought a 3 pin to 4 pin adapter cable (maybe not the best solution but...)

In either case he would not have needed to open up the panel and would have saved valuable load in time.

The legal and safety bits are beat to death now.

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Bob Leonard

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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2013, 07:57:53 am »

For those who wouldn't know I would tend to trust Rob's best practice concerning electrical anywhere. He's the only person to have ever been to my house, which is 100 years old, and then critique an electrical job I had just finished. The critique? He pointed out an area where I didn't use enough wire staples. I fixed it Rob. ;)
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I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

Jamin Lynch

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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2013, 05:24:52 pm »

Of course if the OP had advanced the gig, he could have
- asked them to put in a 4 pin connector (heck, I would supply it if it were me)
- or brought a 3 pin to 4 pin adapter cable (maybe not the best solution but...)

In either case he would not have needed to open up the panel and would have saved valuable load in time.

The legal and safety bits are beat to death now.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I really don't have the time to drive out 100 miles to this little town out in the middle of nowhere at $3.00 a gallon to meet with the Priest at the Catholic Church who can barely speak English and who knows nothing about any of this. I just play with the cards I'm dealt and make the best out of the situation.

Bottom line...........Nothing burn down or will burn down. Nobody got hurt. The show went on as scheduled. We are booked again for another festival. I'll most likely do the same thing.

As usual, the topic has strayed totally away from the original post
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 05:28:01 pm by Jamin Lynch »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2013, 06:05:12 pm »

I really don't have the time to drive out 100 miles to this little town out in the middle of nowhere at $3.00 a gallon to meet with the Priest at the Catholic Church who can barely speak English and who knows nothing about any of this. I just play with the cards I'm dealt and make the best out of the situation.

Bottom line...........Nothing burn down or will burn down. Nobody got hurt. The show went on as scheduled. We are booked again for another festival. I'll most likely do the same thing.

As usual, the topic has strayed totally away from the original post

Those little gigs 100 miles away are the kinds of things that have bit me on the ass over the years.  Any more, I'll make the round trip if there is any doubt in my mind about the load in access or electrical service.

Pictures don't always convey the rate of slope, either.  We had a show where the client said "it's a little raked..." and sent pics.  Yep, it looks like there was a small slope.  We get there... HOLY BatMan, Robin!  Yes, a 14% grade WILL be a problem!  Oh, and the 100 amp electrical service was 5, 20amp Edison receptacles on a 50 amp main breaker...  On a Saturday in rural middle of nowhere.  The show was a success, but that 14% grade made the move out suck in ways that will require years of expensive therapy to forget.  Gas would have been much cheaper. ;)
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2013, 08:54:32 pm »

Those little gigs 100 miles away are the kinds of things that have bit me on the ass over the years.  Any more, I'll make the round trip if there is any doubt in my mind about the load in access or electrical service.

Pictures don't always convey the rate of slope, either.  We had a show where the client said "it's a little raked..." and sent pics.  Yep, it looks like there was a small slope.  We get there... HOLY BatMan, Robin!  Yes, a 14% grade WILL be a problem!  Oh, and the 100 amp electrical service was 5, 20amp Edison receptacles on a 50 amp main breaker...  On a Saturday in rural middle of nowhere.  The show was a success, but that 14% grade made the move out suck in ways that will require years of expensive therapy to forget.  Gas would have been much cheaper. ;)


Wait. What was that one part? "the show was a success".    And you didn't drive over to check it our first, and not everything was just how you wanted it and you made it work somehow? HMMMM
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 08:59:56 pm by Jamin Lynch »
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2013, 09:10:57 pm »



Wait. What was that one part? "the show was a success".    And you didn't drive over to check it our first, and not everything was just how you wanted it and you made it work somehow? HMMMM

If you are caught performing an illegal tie-in, you will be fined. If someone is hurt because of your illegal tie-in you will likely go to jail.

No amount of sarcastic banter on your part will change that. I hope for your sake that an inspector never comes your way.


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Re: 50amp outlets
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2013, 09:10:57 pm »


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