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Author Topic: choosing a digital board  (Read 14672 times)

Scott Bolt

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2013, 07:45:19 pm »

If recording is a big deal, then the Qu-16 beats them all IMHO.  No computer, just an external USB hard drive.  Very cool.  The channel eq on the Qu-16 is also slightly better than the Expression Si (with respect to features).  Keep in mind that the existing firmware does not allow the use of the stagebox yet, and this is a native 16 input fader mixer, so until you can hook up the stage box, it wouldn't meet your channel count requirements.

I will second Chuck on the usability of the remote iPad app on the SL series.  None of the other consoles are even close IMHO.

The SL is also the easiest to learn coming from an analog console (at least I found it so).

The X32 has the most features, and is the most difficult to setup simply because of the flexible routing it gives you.

If you like the soundcraft, I am pretty sure you are going to be quite satisfied with it.  It is a really nice digital mixer and is relatively easy to understand (way easier than an LS9).
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Chuck Simon

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2013, 08:12:37 pm »

" Keep in mind that the existing firmware does not allow the use of the stagebox yet, and this is a native 16 input fader mixer, so until you can hook up the stage box, it wouldn't meet your channel count requirements."

Gee, do you think that might matter?  I have been a big A&H fan/user since 1995.  If the Qu-16 could be a Qu-32 for the same price I got my Si for, I would now be the proud owner of a new Qu-32!  The Soundcraft Si are a hell of deal IMHO, and the Qu-16 obviously does not meet the requirements stated by the OP.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 08:45:14 pm by Chuck Simon »
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Jesse gray

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2013, 09:57:19 pm »


We don't know how many channels you may want for the future, whether you might want to go straight to Logic, why you are discussing a stage box, what other processing factors may apply or what the two venues are.
 
We also know nothing about the intended use, the skills of the usual operators, the outputs required, how scenes may be used, how functions such as subgroups/DCAs/mute groups may apply and so on.
 
You've out of hand eliminated the X32.  You would need someone to 'sell' you on the LS9 but then don't offer much on which to base any 'sale'.  And the StudioLive 24.4.2 is being replaced with an AI version while the SL 32.4.2AI is still in Pre-Order status, so that could affect how you feel about those.
 
So are you really looking for alternatives or more just looking for confirmation on the choice you already made?  If you really want people to offer comments and suggestions then it would likely help if you could provide more information about the use and situation.


Great points. I would like To have 30 inputs in each venue. I won't need all of them all the time, but when I leave the remaining "sound" people don't anything besides mixing. I would like to go straight to logic, but my boss likes the Adat 24 because of safety (when he was looking at going into digital recording it was still really buggy, so likes having the hard drive so it won't crash.)

For the stage box I would like to use one because I like only needing one cable, so that when I leave they can figure it all put.( that and our current snake is lacking in outputs on stage terribly.)

All of my team are volunteers, they are enthusiastic, but thats all the really have going for them. The application is primarily HOW, ranging from Sundays to conferences. For outputs I would like 8-11 outputs,( 8 for the smaller venue for 6 monitors and mains, and then 11 for the larger venue So I could get mains, sub, 6 monitors and sidefills.)

As far as dca's, mutegroups, scenes, etc. Besides using a couple of scenes to change between bands in conferences, non of the above would be used by anyone besides me. The simpler the better. Workflow needs to be very basic, yet I don't want to rule out any board just because it is harder to learn. The only exception would be the x32, I personally don't like the workflow and I know it would be very confusing for my team; as well as the fact that they only have one service center, their name is not held in high esteem with a lot of pro sound guys, and I don't like any piece of behringer gear I have. Out of the presonus and soundcraft si boards, working on each of them for the first time I could navigate through the soundcraft a lot faster, and I liked that the processors were all dedicated on the surface. This would make it easier to teach them how to use it faster, and then not make them learn to look through tons of layers to get to it.

So what I am looking for in the board is ease of use, great sound quality, live recording, large channel count, and versatility.


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Jason Lucas

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2013, 10:54:28 am »

For the stage box I would like to use one because I like only needing one cable, so that when I leave they can figure it all put.( that and our current snake is lacking in outputs on stage terribly.)

This is an important consideration. A lot of the remote stageboxes available don't have very many analog outputs.

With the Soundcraft Si Expression you can get 8 analog outputs at the stagebox if you have the mini stagebox, or more if you step up to the contact stagebox.

The Allen & Heath AR2412 has 12 analog outs. The iLive iDR boxes can have a lot more, but are for more expensive (with good reason, though)

The Behringer X32 can do 16 analog outs with two S16s, the number goes up as you add boxes.

With the Roland V-mixer you can either do two 16in/8out snakes or one 16in/8out and one 8in/16out to get 24 in and out.

The StudioLive doesn't have a digital snake option.

The LS9 has the SB168-ES which works over cobra-net. But that setup would be out of your budget, and an LS9 plus Rio boxes would be way over.
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Samuel Rees

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choosing a digital board
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2013, 01:19:19 pm »

This is an important consideration. A lot of the remote stageboxes available don't have very many analog outputs.

With the Soundcraft Si Expression you can get 8 analog outputs at the stagebox if you have the mini stagebox, or more if you step up to the contact stagebox.

The Allen & Heath AR2412 has 12 analog outs. The iLive iDR boxes can have a lot more, but are for more expensive (with good reason, though)

The Behringer X32 can do 16 analog outs with two S16s, the number goes up as you add boxes.

With the Roland V-mixer you can either do two 16in/8out snakes or one 16in/8out and one 8in/16out to get 24 in and out.

The StudioLive doesn't have a digital snake option.

The LS9 has the SB168-ES which works over cobra-net. But that setup would be out of your budget, and an LS9 plus Rio boxes would be way over.

The GLD stagebox AR2412 Jason mentioned can be expanded with two AR84 boxes, giving you 40 mic inputs and 16 outputs on stage, as well as 4 mic inputs and 4 outputs for a total of 44in20out. Even big name dealers like sweetwater are offering serious deals on the GLD to be competitive, and its one board around here that seems to be universally well liked! Take that with a grain of salt of course.

With a Dante card I think it has the most features of all the discussed desks (44in20out max, VCAs, scribble strips, 8 FX processors)), but is also the most expensive. One benefit is you could start with the 24in12out config ($8000~ from a good dealer) and expand to more ins and out super easily later.

When comparing the price of a config without digital snake to one with digital snake, be sure to include the cost of the same snake in analog.

Would your two spaces be in use at the same time? With Allen Heath you could get two surfaces and one set of stageboxes which could be deployed in a variety of configs. For example, you could have 24x12 in room A, 16x8 running simultaneously in room B, 32x16 in room A and 8x4 in room B, or 44x20 in just one room. Not sure if you meant rooms, or fully different facilities, sorry if I missed that.

Soundcraft Si and Allen Heath GLD are both strong choices IMHO, and you get a pretty clean trade of features for price between them. Need to loose a few features to save a few bucks? Go Si? Have a few extra bucks for the full feature set? Go GLD.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 01:29:36 pm by Samuel Rees »
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Stefan Maerz

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2013, 04:58:25 pm »

the expression series only has a 4 band semi-parametric eq, do i need a fully parametric eq, and if i do, am I wanting more than 4 bands?
For volunteers? Honestly it would probably just complicate things.
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2013, 05:15:04 pm »

My rep stated the Q16 would take either 16 inputs from the Desk or 16 from Dsnake... Never both


If recording is a big deal, then the Qu-16 beats them all IMHO.  No computer, just an external USB hard drive.  Very cool.  The channel eq on the Qu-16 is also slightly better than the Expression Si (with respect to features).  Keep in mind that the existing firmware does not allow the use of the stagebox yet, and this is a native 16 input fader mixer, so until you can hook up the stage box, it wouldn't meet your channel count requirements.

I will second Chuck on the usability of the remote iPad app on the SL series.  None of the other consoles are even close IMHO.

The SL is also the easiest to learn coming from an analog console (at least I found it so).

The X32 has the most features, and is the most difficult to setup simply because of the flexible routing it gives you.

If you like the soundcraft, I am pretty sure you are going to be quite satisfied with it.  It is a really nice digital mixer and is relatively easy to understand (way easier than an LS9).
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Jason Lucas

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2013, 05:42:58 pm »

" Keep in mind that the existing firmware does not allow the use of the stagebox yet, and this is a native 16 input fader mixer, so until you can hook up the stage box, it wouldn't meet your channel count requirements."

Gee, do you think that might matter?  I have been a big A&H fan/user since 1995.  If the Qu-16 could be a Qu-32 for the same price I got my Si for, I would now be the proud owner of a new Qu-32!  The Soundcraft Si are a hell of deal IMHO, and the Qu-16 obviously does not meet the requirements stated by the OP.

I agree that a Qu-32 would be awesome.

I understand most would probably say that if you want more than a Qu-16 that you should get a GLD.

But there's a pretty big gap both in features and price between the Qu-16 and GLD.

A lot of people don't need 44 channels, but a lot of those people do need more than 16. I would think 32 would satisfy most people's needs who are shopping around the $6000 price point.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2013, 07:07:04 pm »

My rep stated the Q16 would take either 16 inputs from the Desk or 16 from Dsnake... Never both

Thanks for the information David.  That is sorry news.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2013, 07:11:54 pm »

I agree that a Qu-32 would be awesome.

I understand most would probably say that if you want more than a Qu-16 that you should get a GLD.

But there's a pretty big gap both in features and price between the Qu-16 and GLD.

A lot of people don't need 44 channels, but a lot of those people do need more than 16. I would think 32 would satisfy most people's needs who are shopping around the $6000 price point.
I was thinking that if it were technically possible, then A&H would do it in a firmware update.  A Qu-16 with a stage box giving you 32 inputs using the custom layer would fill a hole in their product lineup as you point out.

Sadly, it appears that it isn't going to materialize.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: choosing a digital board
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2013, 07:11:54 pm »


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