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Author Topic: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player  (Read 10814 times)

Scott Bolt

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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2013, 06:45:54 pm »

Ok, I think I may not be completely understanding your usage model.

So what inputs are going into the mixer we are talking about?  Does the entire band go through this mixer, or are you using some instruments' cabs for sound reinforcement?

From the discussion above, it kind of sounded like you are using a mixer JUST for your keyboard.  You are then using aux 1 and aux 2 outputs of that mixer to go to a pair of powered speakers that you are using to amplify your keyboard for the crowd to hear as well as performing monitor duty.  You are also sending the real FOH mixer your mixer's L/R output which the FOH engineer is then supposedly mixing into his mix into the real FOH speakers.

Do I have it right?
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WayneHarris

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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2013, 06:48:55 pm »

Ok, I think I may not be completely understanding your usage model.

So what inputs are going into the mixer we are talking about?  Does the entire band go through this mixer, or are you using some instruments' cabs for sound reinforcement?

From the discussion above, it kind of sounded like you are using a mixer JUST for your keyboard.  You are then using aux 1 and aux 2 outputs of that mixer to go to a pair of powered speakers that you are using to amplify your keyboard for the crowd to hear as well as performing monitor duty.  You are also sending the real FOH mixer your mixer's L/R output which the FOH engineer is then supposedly mixing into his mix into the real FOH speakers.

Do I have it right?

Hi Scott, the mixer is JUST for my keyboards, the band do not go through it lol!!
my 2 keyboards go in to 4 channels panned left and right for each keyboard
and again, my 2 sound modules do the same into my mixer

the pair of EV powered cabs sit left and right side of me, just for MYSELF and my own keyboard stereo monitoring, the PA system is controlled by FOH engineer

so in theory, yes you are right  :)
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2013, 09:18:37 pm »

no no no, when I am onstage, I can simply change my AUX sends that are feeding to my powered cabs, there by adjusting the volume to myself, it doesn't affect the FOH
I understand that's what you are doing, but I don't understand why you want your monitor feed different than the house feed?  It's your gig and you can do what you want, but I've been playing keys for 20+ years and have never found a reason for my monitors to be a different balance between sound sources than what is sent to FOH, and in fact, being able to hear the same thing that the sound guy gets is what enables me to balance myself.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2013, 09:34:10 pm »

TJ,
I'm with you on this but wonder if;

Does the OP use the board amp and speakers as his on stage sound source, or does he have an amplifier for his keyboards AND the system he's describing here.

There would be no need for both under any circumstance. If he's feeding the on stage board with his keyboards and obtaining matching levels through the on stage board, then a simple feed to the house system from his on stage board will suffice.

Using the system he has as an on stage back line amplifier works in my book if there's a feed to FOH replicating the systems output and reinforcing his stage volume. Sound 101. Adding monitors to the existing back line makes no sense.

If it's levels that are the concern a simple Rane "Swiss army knife" will do the trick. Feed the FOH with the Rane, take a monitor feed from the FOH. Again, sound 101.

I'm as confused as you are Tom.

OP, this is what you need if you run to FOH and take a monitor feed from that point.

http://www.rane.com/sm26s.html
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BOSTON STRONG........
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WayneHarris

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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2013, 09:41:41 pm »

TJ,
I'm with you on this but wonder if;

Does the OP use the board amp and speakers as his on stage sound source, or does he have an amplifier for his keyboards AND the system he's describing here.

There would be no need for both under any circumstance. If he's feeding the on stage board with his keyboards and obtaining matching levels through the on stage board, then a simple feed to the house system from his on stage board will suffice.

Using the system he has as an on stage back line amplifier works in my book if there's a feed to FOH replicating the systems output and reinforcing his stage volume. Sound 101. Adding monitors to the existing back line makes no sense.

If it's levels that are the concern a simple Rane "Swiss army knife" will do the trick. Feed the FOH with the Rane, take a monitor feed from the FOH. Again, sound 101.

I'm as confused as you are Tom.

OP, this is what you need if you run to FOH and take a monitor feed from that point.

http://www.rane.com/sm26s.html

my god! ha ha

i cant see what anyone's problem is on here guys
i have done this for 15 years and NEVER has any sound engineer suggested a problem
my keyboard volume levels are absolutely fine, no one is having to worry, they never have

its very simple, the FOH engineer gets a left and right XLR from my own desk, which is my keyboards

i have my own cabs on stage just for myself for my own backline volume to hear myself

i use the AUX 1 which is left cab and AUX 2 send which is the right cab from my desk to go to my powered cabs, i can then adjust the aux send pots when needed, this doesnt affect FOH

my keyboards are all panned left and right for STEREO on my mixer


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Tim Perry

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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2013, 11:13:25 pm »

my god! ha ha


I have one of these: it's a Samson PL2404

Rackmount, lots of stereo channels, 4 outputs. I doubt its still made. I think Mackie made something similar.



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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2013, 11:22:29 pm »

Zed consoles might be a touch "light-weight" in construction if you're concerned about the mixer case getting tossed around a bit.  Early reports claimed the console frame would flex a bit, but I think that would be the larger frame sizes.  Smaller model, less flex.

Look at some of the rack mixers from Ashley, then consider a shock-mount case.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 11:29:25 pm by dick rees »
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2013, 11:29:20 pm »


its very simple, the FOH engineer gets a left and right XLR from my own desk, which is my keyboards

i have my own cabs on stage just for myself for my own backline volume to hear myself


Wayne,
 
Your statements prior to this led us to believe you were using this as a monitoring system, not as your back line amplifier, and yes, there is a difference. Your solution should work fine, and practically any board with enough inputs and a pair of aux sends will give you the same results.
 
And just to let you know, I am no stranger to your needs as I take eight keyboard feeds to my board in a similar fashion, however, I do not use the aux sends as my path to FOH. I also own the Rane unit I recommended and know for a fact it is capable of producing the same results in a 1U rack space.
 
Had you been as clear with your initial remarks as you were in your reply to mine this would have been a very short thread. I don't have an issue, I believe it's you that needs the new board, you've been given recommendations, and I wish you luck. By the way Wayne, 15 years is a long time. Add another 30 and you'll have been working keyboards into sound systems almost as long as me.
 
Welcome to my IGGY list.  :D
 
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BOSTON STRONG........
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I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

WayneHarris

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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2013, 06:44:49 am »

Wayne,
 
Your statements prior to this led us to believe you were using this as a monitoring system, not as your back line amplifier, and yes, there is a difference. Your solution should work fine, and practically any board with enough inputs and a pair of aux sends will give you the same results.
 
And just to let you know, I am no stranger to your needs as I take eight keyboard feeds to my board in a similar fashion, however, I do not use the aux sends as my path to FOH. I also own the Rane unit I recommended and know for a fact it is capable of producing the same results in a 1U rack space.
 
Had you been as clear with your initial remarks as you were in your reply to mine this would have been a very short thread. I don't have an issue, I believe it's you that needs the new board, you've been given recommendations, and I wish you luck. By the way Wayne, 15 years is a long time. Add another 30 and you'll have been working keyboards into sound systems almost as long as me.
 
Welcome to my IGGY list.  :D


What's an IGGY list mean? I'm British lol!

Can I ask? I'm not an expert on desks (obviously)

But instead of using the AUX sends 1 and 2 and having to change these sometime per channel

Could I plug my powered cabs into the monitor outs left and right instead?
Then just twist the monitor dial to raise the volume?

I'm thinking that could be better?



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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2013, 09:19:57 am »

What's an IGGY list mean? I'm British lol!

Can I ask? I'm not an expert on desks (obviously)

But instead of using the AUX sends 1 and 2 and having to change these sometime per channel

Could I plug my powered cabs into the monitor outs left and right instead?
Then just twist the monitor dial to raise the volume?

I'm thinking that could be better?

IGGY is not Iggy Pop... it's an old UseNet (the part of the internet 95% of users don't know about) term that is shorthand for "ignore".  The British might call it the "iggy bin."

The Simple Machines Forums software has a feature that allows uses to create an IGGY list.  Posts by those on a user's list do not appear when that user reads a thread.

Wayne, sorry that your methods were called into question, but you probably don't realize the amount of silly or ill-advised things regularly brought here.  It's your stage rig, run it the way that makes the most sense for you gigs.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
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Re: Mixing Desk Opinions for a keyboard player
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2013, 09:19:57 am »


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