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Author Topic: Vocal microphones  (Read 69023 times)

Jay Barracato

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Re: Vocal microphones
« Reply #120 on: January 28, 2017, 04:33:12 pm »

If you can't get a 935 stable onstage something else is wrong in your setup, and it is unlikely a different mic will perform differently. I have had a full set of 935's on a stage so loud I wouldn't step on it without plugs in covered by my ultra phones.

IMHO "feedback resistance" in a mic is marketing bs. The mic is taking the blame for a choppy response curve in your monitors.

Tune ( not ring out) your monitors for a linear response using appropriate DSP and the choice of mics ends up making little difference.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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Jay Barracato

John Chiara

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Re: Vocal microphones
« Reply #121 on: January 28, 2017, 04:49:48 pm »

I'm looking for a mic tonally similar to the e935 but with better feedback rejection. I'm looking to try the following mics :-

EV ND86
EV ND96
Miktek PM9
Telefunken M80

I've tried the Heil mics, Sennheiser E945 and Audix OM6 and none of these suited the vocalist I work with.

Has anyone compared any of the mics on my list to try?
Try a Shure SM86?
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Brian McMahan

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Re: Vocal microphones
« Reply #122 on: January 28, 2017, 06:25:00 pm »

Does the e935 fit into a Shure mic clip?  I have mostly Shure mics in part for the convenience of just having one mic clip to worry about.  Not really interested in the extra expense of adding quick releases to all of my stands and clips...

I use the stock clip on my Senn 8X5 & 9X5.  They're  2012-ish models.  Current body could be different.  YMMV.



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Will Knight

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Re: Vocal microphones
« Reply #123 on: January 28, 2017, 08:58:04 pm »

Does the e935 fit into a Shure mic clip?  I have mostly Shure mics in part for the convenience of just having one mic clip to worry about.  Not really interested in the extra expense of adding quick releases to all of my stands and clips, so I am looking for dynamic vocal mic options that will fit into Shure clips.  And yes, the SM58 is the obvious answer :)  I have one, but it might be nice to expand my range if I can do it without complicating the setup.

The Senn e8x/e9x will fit into the standard Shure clip but it will be a bit tighter than normal.
The body end of 58/57 is about 2mm narrower than the Senns...

My standard mic arsenal consists largely of 58s & 57s with a smattering of Senn 835/935's.
Wireless are all Senn's so a standard/single clip works across all mics I use..
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Richard Penrose

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Re: Vocal microphones
« Reply #124 on: January 30, 2017, 03:07:41 am »

If you can't get a 935 stable onstage something else is wrong in your setup, and it is unlikely a different mic will perform differently. I have had a full set of 935's on a stage so loud I wouldn't step on it without plugs in covered by my ultra phones.

IMHO "feedback resistance" in a mic is marketing bs. The mic is taking the blame for a choppy response curve in your monitors.

Tune ( not ring out) your monitors for a linear response using appropriate DSP and the choice of mics ends up making little difference.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

The vocalists all use IEM's and the feedback with the e935 is coming from the FOH. Sometimes the band has to set up in very challenging acoustic spaces. One example recently was the band had to set up in a very tight corner of a venue. The ceilings were low, the walls in the corner had large mirrors, the floor was ceramic tiles and the speakers had to go slightly behind the vocal mics. The room was long so the speakers needed to throw quite a distance as the event was a party and the clients wanted the sound pumping!
I used three e945 on three of the vocalists and they worked well and didn't cause any issues. However, the e935 was feeding back loads!! By the time I'd wrung out FOH the vocalist on the e935 sounded thin and harsh!
The PA I used that night was just a pair of Yamaha DXR15's and I had the bass, keys and all vocals running through them. The band plays three venues with similarly challenging acoustics and I'd like a mic that would be more suitable for the lead vocalist in these venues.
I've tried an Audix OM6 and didn't like how this mic sounded on her voice so this has put me off the OM7 (though I may be able to borrow one to try). The new EV ND96 looks like a possibility and maybe the ND86. I've also heard great things about the Miktek PM9 and Telefunken M80 and I may be able to get hold of one of those to try.

I know two very experienced engineers who have encountered the same problem with the e935 in these venues so I don't think it's just me!
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Josh Millward

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Re: Vocal microphones
« Reply #125 on: January 30, 2017, 03:49:35 pm »

I used three e945 on three of the vocalists and they worked well and didn't cause any issues. However, the e935 was feeding back loads!! By the time I'd wrung out FOH the vocalist on the e935 sounded thin and harsh!

Hmm... sounds like the low frequencies are either coming right through the back of the cabinet and washing the stage or they are wrapping around from the front of the cabinet to cause you grief with all that feedback. Regardless, too much LF bleed from your mains on to the stage area being picked up by the vocal mics.

The PA I used that night was just a pair of Yamaha DXR15's and I had the bass, keys and all vocals running through them.

I'm not overly familiar with these loudspeakers as I've never used them or listened to them. Looking at Yamaha's website they mention:
"Throw in some D-Contour and you'll feel like you're using a subwoofer."
Did you have the D-Contour function enabled? Sounds like it probably adds some low end via EQ or LF synthesis.
Also I note that the cabinets are made of ABS plastic... does the cabinet vibrate and flex much when you are using it? If it does, that is sound escaping out the back of the cabinet.

I know two very experienced engineers who have encountered the same problem with the e935 in these venues so I don't think it's just me!

So if you can find a way to make the e935's work in this environment, maybe you'll be the "experienced engineer".

Did you try inverting the polarity of the vocal mic input to see how it changed the summing response with the loudspeaker in those close quarters? Assuming your three vocals make up the front line, I might try inverting the polarity of the outside two and leave the middle one normal and see how it sounds. I would also check it out with all three inverted. Sometimes inverting the bass guitar input or kick drum channel is exactly what it takes in certain situations to take things from "functional" to "excellent". Try it, it may be exactly what you are looking for... unless it is not.
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Josh Millward
Danley Sound Labs

George Dougherty

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Re: Vocal microphones
« Reply #126 on: January 30, 2017, 10:22:39 pm »

I know two very experienced engineers who have encountered the same problem with the e935 in these venues so I don't think it's just me!
In my testing of the e935 I found it had very even vocal response around to 90 degrees off axis.  Many other cardioids are rolling off the lows at that angle, so I'm not too surprised it would give you more problems in that kind of environment.  If the vocalist has good technique and stays on-axis there's no problem with using a 945 as a lead vocal mic, unless of course you don't have another.
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Richard Penrose

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Re: Vocal microphones
« Reply #127 on: February 05, 2017, 03:11:49 am »

In my testing of the e935 I found it had very even vocal response around to 90 degrees off axis.  Many other cardioids are rolling off the lows at that angle, so I'm not too surprised it would give you more problems in that kind of environment.  If the vocalist has good technique and stays on-axis there's no problem with using a 945 as a lead vocal mic, unless of course you don't have another.

Yes this makes a lot of sense. The e935 is feeding back from the FOH speakers. I've got a gig in one of the problematic venues in a couple of weeks and I'm looking to borrow the following mics:-

EV ND86
EV ND96
Miktek PM9
Telefunken M80

Will let you know how I get on.
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Richard Penrose

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Re: Vocal microphones
« Reply #128 on: February 27, 2017, 02:44:41 am »

I picked up the Telefunken M80, M81 and EV ND86 to try try in the really challenging venue I work at. None of these mics gave me any feedback issues. The Telefunken have tight cardioid patterns and the EV is supercardioid. As George mentioned the Sennheiser E935 appears to have a more even vocal response at 90 degrees in the low frequencies. Having the tight cardioid pattern of the Telefunken mics and supercardioid pattern of the EV made a bigger difference than I expected!
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George Dougherty

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Re: Vocal microphones
« Reply #129 on: February 27, 2017, 10:34:38 pm »

I picked up the Telefunken M80, M81 and EV ND86 to try try in the really challenging venue I work at. None of these mics gave me any feedback issues. The Telefunken have tight cardioid patterns and the EV is supercardioid. As George mentioned the Sennheiser E935 appears to have a more even vocal response at 90 degrees in the low frequencies. Having the tight cardioid pattern of the Telefunken mics and supercardioid pattern of the EV made a bigger difference than I expected!
Worth noting that the M8x from Telefunken are listed as Supercardioid, not cardioid, which is a tighter pattern but not the best description when you also list the EV as a supercardioid, which it is.
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