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[Nick Pires]

We have a pair of the LA12-25 towers from applied. They work great. A couple of things to note:
They changed the deployment instructions last year.
-They now require 500lbs of ballast at each contact pint with the ground. So, 500lb on the end of each leg, and 500lb as close as possible to the base of the tower.
-They take 45-60min each for one tech and 1-2 hands to assemble (less for 2 people who are well practiced).
-Applied likes to sell them as whole systems. They don't like selling just the "specialty" parts to be used with truss that one may already have in inventory.

They are a solid design though, and we have been able to rent them to other production companies in the area.

[John Moore]

Take a look at Trabes...we used their 4.5's and these are a bit taller...

http://www.trabes.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=239&Itemid=211&lang=en

[James A. Griffin]

Check out Sumner Eventer 16's  http://www.sumner.com/sumner/sub/productb/galmodel.26.7.26.0.0.0.html

+1

Sumner's states that theirs are "specifically designed for the theatrical and entertainment industries, has proven a reliable lifting solution for flying light and speaker arrays in both indoor and outdoor venues", though I don't know if there is some official rating body that as signed off on that.   That being said, I use mine outdoors all the time with no issues.  They're been very stable.

[alan hamilton]

I can't understand what would make a Sumner any better than a Genie ST for outdoor use. To me they'd have the same issues. Am I missing something?

[Chris Johnson [UK]]

2 mil company / 1 mil personal.  Not sure if there is a required.  This is what we've always had.  I'm sure larger companies may carry much more.  It's also good to get a PUP to cover you personally.  Anyone else have info?

Really?? Thats all??

If one person were to get seriously injured or killed, I doubt that would cover it!

I'm in the UK and I have £10 mil personal public liability insurance!

[Lee Buckalew]

Really?? Thats all??

If one person were to get seriously injured or killed, I doubt that would cover it!

I'm in the UK and I have £10 mil personal public liability insurance!

Talking with a few different very big name/well known FOH engineers that are based in the US I found that they each carried $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 personal liability policies.  Pretty standard.  I would think that larger companies doing more or larger shows would carry higher corporate liability.

Lee

[Jay Barracato]

I can't understand what would make a Sumner any better than a Genie ST for outdoor use. To me they'd have the same issues. Am I missing something?

The Sumner has the same " do not use in adverse weather conditions" warning on the first page of the manual.

I still maintain the problem is basically having multiple lifts attached together by the frame of the roof. That allows for a far greater wind load at a lower windspeed than anything a single load on a single lift will encounter. In addition, as I have previously stated, a failure of one lift will create loads that are unaccounted for at the other lifts, making additional failures likely.

The problem is not simply indoor vs. outdoor use; the problem is using the equipment as part of a system it was not designed for. That's what I am going to believe until someone shows me the lateral forces a crank up lift was designed to support compared to the wind load at various speeds.

[James A. Griffin]

I can't understand what would make a Sumner any better than a Genie ST for outdoor use. To me they'd have the same issues. Am I missing something?

I don't know what mechsnical differences there are in the two.  I only know that Sumner markets theirs as suitable for outdoor use.   It woukd be interesting to find out if there is engineering data to support this


@ Jay.   +1 on not using them to support roof structures     I use mine only to fly an array of T4 boxes,less than 300 lbs. 

[Jay Barracato]

I don't know what mechsnical differences there are in the two.  I only know that Sumner markets theirs as suitable for outdoor use.   It woukd be interesting to find out if there is engineering data to support this


@ Jay.   +1 on not using them to support roof structures     I use mine only to fly an array of T4 boxes,less than 300 lbs.

Some quick back of the envelope calculations:

I would estimate the maximum wind load on the side of an array that has a cross section on 30 sq ft to be 138 lbs at 30 mph and 550 lbs at 60 mph.

In contrast, a 20 x 30 roof could add a load of 2700 lbs at 30 mph and 11000 lbs at 60 mph.

While these estimates are for the wind being at a right angle to the surface and are probably a worst worst case estimation, since the wind speed is squared in the calculation a small change in the angle of incidence can make a big change in the load.

And gust fronts in these surprise storm are notorious for going strange directions including straight up and straight down. One storm here in my area picked up a 30 ft sailboat off a boat lift and set it down on the other side of the pier.

[drew gandy]

One storm here in my area picked up a 30 ft sailboat off a boat lift and set it down on the other side of the pier.

Safely?  Sound like fun! 

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