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Author Topic: X32 Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job  (Read 44617 times)

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: X32 Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2013, 12:43:50 pm »

Positive anecdotes do not cancel out negative anecdotes, while there should be somewhat lower expectations for lower priced gear.

Stuff happens...  This product has been put under a microscope because of very high expectations.

It has been suggested that digital products fail less gracefully than analog products. All products can have single point failure modes. Mature products in high reliability applications engineer around them as they are understood.

An analog console with bad power may still pass signal but won't sound very good. All products need good power. The digital circuitry inside a digital console is probably running from single digit DC power supply rails. Hard to imagine running out of voltage in even brown out conditions, but budget power supply designs may not be that flexible .

JR
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Steve Alves

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Re: X32 Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2013, 01:22:53 pm »

With approximately 30,000 X-32 in service there are bound to be some failures. Of course you don't hear about the other 29,000+ or so that are working just fine. If that means that Bob Leonard or Steve Alves doesn't trust the board, whatever...

Wow, got my name mentioned in the same sentence with Bob. I am truly honored..

However, I did not say I do not trust the board. I just feel you get what you pay for.
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Steven Alves
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Re: X32 Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2013, 01:30:30 pm »


 I did not say I do not trust the board. I just feel you get what you pay for.

Or the Karmic equivalent:  you pay for what you get.
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Steve Hurt

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Re: X32 Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2013, 01:31:26 pm »

No amount of people saying "well, my board works fine" will fix a board that is bad.

When something breaks, rather than defending the makers virginity/honor/whatever,..... figure out what is wrong, get it fixed, share w/others what was wrong, learn from it and move on.
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: X32 Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2013, 02:02:17 pm »

No amount of people saying "well, my board works fine" will fix a board that is bad.

When something breaks, rather than defending the makers virginity/honor/whatever,..... figure out what is wrong, get it fixed, share w/others what was wrong, learn from it and move on.

Come on Steve, that is way too logical. We're here simply to defend our choice in brands with a near religious zeal!

But for real: Interested in how this ends up for the OP.
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Scott Wagner

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Re: X32 Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2013, 02:48:05 pm »

Come on Steve, that is way too logical. We're here simply to defend our choice in brands with a near religious zeal!
I've had an H3000 fail at a gig, too.  Does that mean it's junk?  Not even close.  Things happen at all levels of gear.  The trick is to do everything you can to avoid problems (ie: metering power drops, maintenance, etc) and to be prepared for WHEN something does happen.  Murphy has a cruel sense of humor.
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Scott Wagner
Big Nickel Audio

Mac Kerr

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Re: Any console Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2013, 03:08:44 pm »

I've had an H3000 fail at a gig, too.  Does that mean it's junk?  Not even close.  Things happen at all levels of gear.  The trick is to do everything you can to avoid problems (ie: metering power drops, maintenance, etc) and to be prepared for WHEN something does happen.  Murphy has a cruel sense of humor.

IIRC I have had 5 console failures in the past 20 something years. In chronological order they are DDA due to power supply, DDA due to power supply, Soundcraft Europa automation locked up due to dead internal battery, H3000 automation locked up due to condensation, DM2000 due to early power supply that couldn't power all 6 slots. The DM2000 worked fine with only 4 expansion cards.

The DM2k power supply was a known issue (not to me at the time) and was quickly fixed. DDA power supplies never got better in my experience, the H3k was always susceptible to condensation on the automation board that was beneath the VCA fader bay.

Mac
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 05:33:10 pm by Mac Kerr »
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Any console Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2013, 04:52:42 pm »

There are simple (and inexpensive) a/c plug checkers out there.  I used one a few weeks ago to check a guy's home a/c (he was blowing speakers and thought it may be the power).  It was a nice little unit that had a small LCD and could indicate phase switching, safety ground off, ground off, line voltage, and line frequency.  It also had a plug you could put a load on.  I put a 12 amp load on that circuit to see if voltage drop was an issue (was seeing 109 volts at that load).  Frequency was spot on 60Hz.

I would highly recommend this little meter, and wish I could tell you guys the model and make, but I borrowed it from work and don't have it near me.  If anyone is interested I can look it up this week and post it.

I also used a scope to look at the waveform to ensure there wasn't some insane amount of noise on the line ..... not that I would expect this to matter to a power supply in most cases.  The scope wasn't a particularly inexpensive piece of gear though ;)
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Brian Wynn

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Re: Any console Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2013, 05:18:54 pm »

I love my X32's I haven't seen many problems with them.  Also I have sold over 50 of them and seen maybe 2 single fader issues and 1 encoder problem.  I would bet that if you could count the shear number of desks in service the failure rate is no greater than any of the Presonus or Soundcraft desks out in the field that have had issues.  I do believe that they should  setup local service center across the globe instead of having to send the desk to Las Vegas.

Just my 2 cents.

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Bob Leonard

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Re: X32 Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2013, 05:51:03 pm »

First off, doesn't anyone meter their power before plugging anything into it?  I know I do - every single time (even in places I've been before).  Also, once you start adding loads to your electrical system "brown outs" are always a possibility.  What I've found is that "bad power" is not very common; however, overloaded power happens often (and it's usually "operator error").  I've "repaired" many house systems by simply redistributing the electrical connections.  Just becuase things are plugged into three different outlets does not mean that they are on different circuits, and just because things meter corrently doesn't mean that the same will be true under load (at least from a voltage perspective).

As for the X32, I've put 10 solid months of heavy usage on mine with zero faults of any kind.  Yes, I trust it.  Yes, I carry a spare.  You carry a spare for that Soundcraft, don't you, Bob?  It probably says ABP on it, too.

Scott,
I'm pleased that you have had a good run with your X32's. I'll also say that if the service you provide is as stated on your web site, then you should be very proud of yourself and of your company. I see that you are especially proud of your 18 year 100% on time record, and you should be.
 
Spares for anything are a discussion unto itself so I won't go there for anything more than to say the spares I carry are often dictated by the distance from home base.
 
I'm also going to say that X32 owners tend to spend an inordinate amount of time defending their purchase, and often with exaggerated claims. To me that's neither here nor there. My opinions of the Behringer X32 are simplistic. Huge bang for the buck, people seem to like it, and by most accounts the reliability is pretty good.
 
However, the word reliability opens a door. If I put on the blinders and base my opinion on a single web site, then maybe the board is the second coming. It's when I take of the blinders and research a large number of sites and reports of problems I loose faith in the product. Basically there seems to be some little thing wrong with what is starting to become a larger number of boards in total.
 
I stated prior to this that testing and QA are a significant part of the overall cost of a product. If, remember the word if, Behringer is now sampling a smaller quantity of boards prior to shipment, then more smaller but correctable problems, will be found in new out of the box products. In effect the end user is now becoming the final QA. My other issue is the number of manufactured units. Manufactured units and sold, in use units, are two very different things.
 
My response was for the OP. My question was explicit. How will HE fell now knowing he's had this issue that has not been diagnosed, and what steps will he take to insure the issue is resolved. Personally I would have zero, no, nada, not one bit of confidence in that particular board, and my first step would be to contact Behringer and ask for some attention to the problem or for a replacement board. I didn't trash the board, but once again the Behringerites respond with "isolated case, billions served, more features, blessed by god." It's all bullshit to me, and my only point is this. Uli and his crew have made promises. If my board failed 10 minutes before a gig, then I want those promises kept, and I'll hold your feet to the fire until you keep them.
 
Uli's done a wonderful job of marketing, but one service center in Las Vegas won't turn my head for a second look. Reliability has to be proven, not declared. So, when a year or two passes and reliability has been proven, or disproved, as the case may be I'll do nothing more with a Behringer product other than wish those of you who have them good fortune and the best of luck.
 
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Re: X32 Failure an Hour Before Wedding Job
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2013, 05:51:03 pm »


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