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[Sean Thomas]

.....you could have just flown 4 850's per side in a 2+2 configuration and rocked way harder than your new line array ever will be able to.

.....if you want to swap out "old technology" for "new technology" replace those 850's with Danley Jericho J3's. Now you really do only need two per side

This whole fixation with line arrays needs to go die in a fire somewhere. There ARE better solutions, you just need to use them.

4 850's per side = 800 lbs. @ 200 lbs. ea.
2 J30's per side = 900 lbs. @ 450 lbs. ea.
plus my amp racks @ 200 lbs ea.

This advice is so far from where I am/was wanting to go, it isn't even thinkable.

Does your advise fit my needs of: small, light weight, self-powered, easily flyable, modular, fast deploy, etc.?

[Ivan Beaver]

4 850's per side = 800 lbs. @ 200 lbs. ea.
2 J30's per side = 900 lbs. @ 450 lbs. ea.
plus my amp racks @ 200 lbs ea.

This advice is so far from where I am/was wanting to go, it isn't even thinkable.

Does your advise fit my needs of: small, light weight, self-powered, easily flyable, modular, fast deploy, etc.?

But not exactly a comparison as the output levels between the different systems are QUITE different.

There is a lot more to a system than just weight.  Just sayin'

But if that is the main difference that you are looking for-then good for you.

[Samuel Rees]

What are you flying them with? It seems like lack of means to fly is a big problem for small companies - what solution are you using, and what do you think about it?

[Ray Aberle]

Thanks Ray.

Let me clarify: their advice was wrong for me.  I already have a rig of high-output trap boxes, Crown Macro amp racks, processing, etc.

Everyone was telling me to buy what I already had.

I specifically said I was going to buy a new line array, I had narrowed it down to Brands A, B, and C.  All of the advice was to buy old/used Brand Z.

That simply was never an option for me, no matter how many guys suggested it.

Actually, the advice was for Tracy...

If you re-read the thread, you will note that for the scenario you described, the experience was to go with a trap box; the KF850 was mentioned, as Tim explained, as it was a good example of a box that everyone would recognize. Since you never mentioned what you already had for a system (high output boxes, Crown racks, etc), and you mentioned audience sizes you were looking to start doing, people made recommendations based on the information that was provided. And that's how this forum works-- the more information you provide, the better of an answer you will receive.

The danger is when joe-schmoe comes in, has his JBL JRX rig, decides he wants to cover 2,000 people outside for one event, and is looking at this eBay auction for 12 boxes of VT4888. That would be the wrong choice for him, would be a waste of money if he doesn't have all of the other gear needed for large events plus the business to support it plus the skill set to properly configure and deploy the rig-- and so, based on the information he is giving, people are going to advise him accordingly.

Anywhoodles, your rig is what you wanted, and sounds like you're happy, and that's what matters. But again, had you gone with a line array, and not been happy, would you have come back and apologised for not heeding the advice? Recommendations are made based on information provided.

And with that... now it's time for dinner! And cocktail time...

Ugh-- new post: Sean's picture posted shows a couple of lifts and a stick of truss, speakers spansetted to the truss. Doesn't answer if he has chain motors for larger gigs, or places where the lifts just won't work well at (like outdoors...), or if he has the skillset and training to professionally rig flown speaker arrays.

-Ray

[Sean Thomas]

But not exactly a comparison as the output levels between the different systems are QUITE different.

There is a lot more to a system than just weight.  Just sayin'

But if that is the main difference that you are looking for-then good for you.

Ian - I stated that my new Line Array system must be small and light weight.  There should be no confusion in those 3 specs.  Does a J30 meet those 3 specs?  KF850's?  Surly you can understand why I continue to question all of the "bad advise for me."

[Sean Thomas]

Anywhoodles, your rig is what you wanted, and sounds like you're happy, and that's what matters. But again, had you gone with a line array, and not been happy, would you have come back and apologised for not heeding the advice? Recommendations are made based on information provided.
-Ray

I took this purchase VERY seriously.  That was the point of all my research and live demo testing.  To buy what I was most happy with.  I only wrote the check after I was 100% convinced that this was the BEST RIG for ME.

[Sean Thomas]

What are you flying them with? It seems like lack of means to fly is a big problem for small companies - what solution are you using, and what do you think about it?

ST-180 lifts.  Pics shows rig at aprox. 16'.  No problems in doors.  I am now looking into a LA Tower for outdoors.  Not sure if I want to get a Genie type lift or get a TRUSS style lift.  I can also rig from our load bearing roof 40' x 32'.

[Tim McCulloch]

4 850's per side = 800 lbs. @ 200 lbs. ea.
2 J30's per side = 900 lbs. @ 450 lbs. ea.
plus my amp racks @ 200 lbs ea.

This advice is so far from where I am/was wanting to go, it isn't even thinkable.

Does your advise fit my needs of: small, light weight, self-powered, easily flyable, modular, fast deploy, etc.?

As Ray points out, you weren't forthcoming about what you already were using and your post came off as a "me too! me too!" quest to fuck up yet another line array deployment.

I'm glad you like your T12s; they're the sleeper in the RCF/DBT line up and I think you'll *really* like them when you add more elements to the array.

You may wish to have a better understanding of the loading you have created by using the truss and lifts in the manner you have, and I certainly am not enthused by the *appearance* of the truss being downstage of the center of the lift mast.

[Ray Aberle]

You may wish to have a better understanding of the loading you have created by using the truss and lifts in the manner you have, and I certainly am not enthused by the *appearance* of the truss being downstage of the center of the lift mast.

I have a pair of the ST-180s. They have a truss adapter that holds the truss right center of the lifting masts. If you've set them correctly, since they are adjustable for different size truss, then they're right over the center of gravity. (Since they are adjustable, though, and giving the idiot factor, I guess one could feasibly adjust them to be on one side or the other of the cog..)

-Ray

[Tim McCulloch]

I have a pair of the ST-180s. They have a truss adapter that holds the truss right center of the lifting masts. If you've set them correctly, since they are adjustable for different size truss, then they're right over the center of gravity. (Since they are adjustable, though, and giving the idiot factor, I guess one could feasibly adjust them to be on one side or the other of the cog..)

-Ray

I figured it could be a perspective/optical delusion thing, that's why I used the word *appearance*.

There is more to using lifts with truss than just cranking them up, and it begins with understanding the lateral forces created by certain types of use.  Two books by Chris Higgs, "An Introduction to Rigging in the Entertainment Industry" and "Rigging for Entertainment:  Regulations and Practice" and good reads, as is Harry Donovan's "Entertainment Rigging."

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