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Author Topic: Subs in/under the stage in clubs.  (Read 2263 times)

Marsellus Fariss

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Subs in/under the stage in clubs.
« on: August 19, 2013, 02:15:51 pm »

It's been recommended to me several times and I've often thought about moving our subs from off stage right and left to center clustered in the stage downstage. Our subs are exactly as tall as the stage and they would become part of the stage itself at the down stage edge where wedges usually live. Or possibly seat just under the multiply stage if we take up some bits of dance floor.

Although I understand and would enjoy the benefits of coverage I haven't done this for fear of how it would effect on stage sound. Myself and the other house guys are fairly conservative with the low end but there so many BE's out there that think the kick drum is the most important thing in the universe and should be the hottest thing in the mix that im affraid it might create a low frequency build up problem I've seen several times before.

Are my fears founded?

Subs are 2x front loaded double 18's crossed at 80hz.

Edit: I should add the room is 60x50, stage is roughly 30x 15 and 2.5' tall and ceilings are low.

When I've seen this be an issue is several places that had an inordinate amount of subs (9 MTL4's) or subs crossed over higher and without being aux fed. I suspect ours at 80 being aux fed could be less problematic?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 02:33:21 pm by Marsellus Fariss »
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Robert Weston

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Re: Subs in/under the stage in clubs.
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 02:43:41 pm »

It's been recommended to me several times and I've often thought about moving our subs from off stage right and left to center clustered in the stage downstage. Our subs are exactly as tall as the stage and they would become part of the stage itself at the down stage edge where wedges usually live. Or possibly seat just under the multiply stage if we take up some bits of dance floor.

Although I understand and would enjoy the benefits of coverage I haven't done this for fear of how it would effect on stage sound. Myself and the other house guys are fairly conservative with the low end but there so many BE's out there that think the kick drum is the most important thing in the universe and should be the hottest thing in the mix that im affraid it might create a low frequency build up problem I've seen several times before.

Are my fears founded?

Subs are 2x front loaded double 18's crossed at 80hz.

Edit: I should add the room is 60x50, stage is roughly 30x 15 and 2.5' tall and ceilings are low.

When I've seen this be an issue is several places that had an inordinate amount of subs (9 MTL4's) or subs crossed over higher and without being aux fed. I suspect ours at 80 being aux fed could be less problematic?

My experience has yielded stage rumbling w/subs underneath (not as bad with them on the stage).  This was remedied by moving the subs out from under and just in front of the stage (centered).  The L and R cabinets were moved out (off the stage) to line up with the subs.
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Scott Harris

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Re: Subs in/under the stage in clubs.
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 02:54:36 pm »

The best way to find out is to try it.  I do it in what seems to be a similar club where the stage is the same height as the subs.  I then put the monitors out on the subs which gives more room on the stage.  The musicians appreciate the added space and everyone likes the added and evenly spread oomph from the center cluster.  Just for grins at one show I did go back to a traditional side subs setup and it sucked.  It literally sucked the bass out in the expected lobing zones.  I try to center cluster whenever I'm at a venue that allows it.  I went a little overboard once and did it on a floor level stage.  Sounded great, monitors where great being closer to the musicians, but the band felt isolated from the audience.

There are 2 downsides to center clustering.  You losing the nice stable sub boxes to stack the mains on and have to find something else to get the mains up in the air.  You also have to play with the main delay settings as you lose the straight forward math of driver offset distance.
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Greg_Cameron

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Re: Subs in/under the stage in clubs.
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 02:55:07 pm »

One thing to be careful of with center clustering is that it can create nulls from wall bounce at the front of the room off to the side of the stage. This was true in my venue which isn't as wide as yours. I had to space the subs out across the front of the stage which yields pretty even coverage throughout the room. When I had them all packed in the middle. There was a substantial kick drum null off to the sides of the stage nearly halfway back into the room. I'd strongly suggest modeling different setups in Meyer MAPP online, it was pretty darn accurate with my room relative to real world sub positioning.
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Mike Sullivan

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Re: Subs in/under the stage in clubs.
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2013, 03:03:43 pm »

One thing to be careful of with center clustering is that it can create nulls from wall bounce at the front of the room off to the side of the stage. This was true in my venue which isn't as wide as yours. I had to space the subs out across the front of the stage which yields pretty even coverage throughout the room. When I had them all packed in the middle. There was a substantial kick drum null off to the sides of the stage nearly halfway back into the room. I'd strongly suggest modeling different setups in Meyer MAPP online, it was pretty darn accurate with my room relative to real world sub positioning.

One venue where I "Fixed" the PA system (basically polished a turd) has the subs under the stage.  I'm just not 100% impressed with having them under there, but I rarely frequent the venue to try anything different (that and the owner's a cheap drunk, they are Eminence drivers in JBL AS-series boxes, the original 2241's are under the stage but blown, and he's too cheap to fix them...then again, seeing the price of them, I would be hesitant as well).  YMMV.  I'd rather have them out though personally.
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Ben Brunskill

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Re: Subs in/under the stage in clubs.
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 05:34:28 am »

I mix in a venue where the subs are under the stage and itís brilliant. The stage was designed and built mostly out of high density polystyrene, so that it doesnít rumble, and the subs donít take up special floor space.
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Re: Subs in/under the stage in clubs.
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