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[Tracy Stewart]

Hello everyone.  I am in search of a really good lapel and headworn mic for my sennheiser evolution body pack.  Right now i am using the Audio Technica body pack with the standard lapel and headworn and they absolutely do not work.  Granted, i know that they gain before feedback wont be what it is on a handheld, but i cannot get any volume without multiple feedback points from these mics.  I am done with Audio Technica!  Price is no object.  I want something that is going to perform in live applications without having to notch every frequency.  Thanks so much for the input.

[Robert Piascik]

I think that's kind of the nature of lapel mics I'm not sure that any one is significantly better than another. The headset mics are better than lapels Crown 311 is better than Countryman e6 is better than any lapel but the biggest factor is the closer you can get the element to the sound source the better the result.

[Tim McCulloch]

Hello everyone.  I am in search of a really good lapel and headworn mic for my sennheiser evolution body pack.  Right now i am using the Audio Technica body pack with the standard lapel and headworn and they absolutely do not work.  Granted, i know that they gain before feedback wont be what it is on a handheld, but i cannot get any volume without multiple feedback points from these mics.  I am done with Audio Technica!  Price is no object.  I want something that is going to perform in live applications without having to notch every frequency.  Thanks so much for the input.

I used the stock Sennheiser omni lavalier mics on a product introduction the other day.  Not what I'm used to, but they did not require me to 'notch every frequency.'  They (and most lavs) needed a pretty steep high pass filter @160Hz.  I had 3 filters left on the strip EQ for input voicing and 2 filters left on the lav subgroup EQ for feedback control.

A common mistake with lavaliers is setting input trim too high, initially, and then trying to EQ away the gain.  That you are having problems with the A-T earset mic suggests this is a potential problem in your setup.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

I used the stock Sennheiser omni lavalier mics on a product introduction the other day.  Not what I'm used to, but they did not require me to 'notch every frequency.'  They (and most lavs) needed a pretty steep high pass filter @160Hz.  I had 3 filters left on the strip EQ for input voicing and 2 filters left on the lav subgroup EQ for feedback control.

A common mistake with lavaliers is setting input trim too high, initially, and then trying to EQ away the gain.  That you are having problems with the A-T earset mic suggests this is a potential problem in your setup.

I have been using Audio Technica "run-of-the-mill" stuff for years, both lavs and headsets, and do not find it working any differently than Shure or Sennheiser....if the system is properly deployed and tweaked. 

[Bob Cap]

I have been using Audio Technica "run-of-the-mill" stuff for years, both lavs and headsets, and do not find it working any differently than Shure or Sennheiser....if the system is properly deployed and tweaked.

I agree Dick. I have also used AT product for years.

I have several AT 3000 systems. I have the following vocal application microphones: ATW-T371b handheld cardioid condenser microphone,  AT831cW lavalier microphone, the TM75cW Cardioid Condenser Headworn Microphone and the BP892cW-TH MicroSet omnidirectional condenser headworn microphone for each of the systems. I also use the ATM350cW Cardioid Condenser Clip-on Instrument Microphone for instruments.

You will always need to do a little tweeking of the EQ for any mic. Maybe you are just using the wrong type of mic for your application...

You did not mention what type of application you are trying to use them in.

So far I have not run into an application that one of these microphones did not do the trick. Give us a little more information on your application and let's see if we can give you a recommendation.

Thanks

Bob Cap
Advanced Audio Inc.
Gilbert, MN

[Ivan Beaver]

but the biggest factor is the closer you can get the element to the sound source the better the result.

Basic PAG-NAG equation stuff.

You need to address the thing that makes the biggest change-and that is distance to the source-so less gain is needed.

That-and having a user who is willing to actually speak like they want to be heard-and not whisper.

If you don't talk for the people to hear you-they aren't.

If the user 'thinks" they are to loud and talks quiet-that is NOT a technical problem-but rather a personal problem.  No "magic mic" is going to fix that.

[Tim McCulloch]

Basic PAG-NAG equation stuff.

You need to address the thing that makes the biggest change-and that is distance to the source-so less gain is needed.

That-and having a user who is willing to actually speak like they want to be heard-and not whisper.

If you don't talk for the people to hear you-they aren't.

If the user 'thinks" they are to loud and talks quiet-that is NOT a technical problem-but rather a personal problem.  No "magic mic" is going to fix that.

For those playing along at home:

PAG: Potential Acoustic Gain

NAG: Needed Acoustic Gain.

[Ivan Beaver]

For those playing along at home:

PAG: Potential Acoustic Gain

NAG: Needed Acoustic Gain.

And while the formulas don't really work in real life-they DO give a good indicator of what makes a difference.

It is worth EVERYBODIES time to work through them a time or two or three-to get the idea of things that matter.

It is one of those "basic understandings" that people in audio need to know.

[Tracy Stewart]

Yes, I agree that proximity is key with mics.  I am looking at the E6 Countryman headworn with the sennheiser g3 wireless pack.  Has anyone used the cardioid version of this mic?  It would have to have better feedback rejection than the omni.  Mostly what i am using this mic for is corporate events both inside and outside.

[Ivan Beaver]

Yes, I agree that proximity is key with mics.  I am looking at the E6 Countryman headworn with the sennheiser g3 wireless pack.  Has anyone used the cardioid version of this mic?  It would have to have better feedback rejection than the omni.  Mostly what i am using this mic for is corporate events both inside and outside.

There are things that people "automatically" assume with mics.

ONE is that a cardiod is better at gain before feedback.  Well it depends-and the depends is what the mic/speaker relationship/position is.  In one direction a cardioid has better rejection.  But that also means that in the opposite direction it is "wide open" to picking up the sound.

So it depends on where the speaker is-as to whether or not there will be more gain.

As far as lapels-I often prefer an omni-because the person can move their head around and the sound will not varying as much in level as with a directional mic.

With a "typical" lav mounting-the area of rejection is straight down towards the floor-which means the "open" side of the mic is facing upwards-usually towards the speakers.

Just some things to think about.

[[email protected]]

Hello everyone.  I am in search of a really good lapel and headworn mic for my sennheiser evolution body pack.  Right now i am using the Audio Technica body pack with the standard lapel and headworn and they absolutely do not work.  Granted, i know that they gain before feedback wont be what it is on a handheld, but i cannot get any volume without multiple feedback points from these mics.  I am done with Audio Technica!  Price is no object.  I want something that is going to perform in live applications without having to notch every frequency.  Thanks so much for the input.

I think this is not quite enough of a description of the application for the community to really help you... are you using this for a singing drummer? a costco product demo? live theater? How close physically are the speakers that are feeding back?... are they the same from day to day?

[Justin Bartlett]

Yes, I agree that proximity is key with mics.  I am looking at the E6 Countryman headworn with the sennheiser g3 wireless pack.  Has anyone used the cardioid version of this mic?  It would have to have better feedback rejection than the omni.  Mostly what i am using this mic for is corporate events both inside and outside.

You'll have better luck with the omni E6, not the cardioid.

[Don Boomer]

I think that's kind of the nature of lapel mics I'm not sure that any one is significantly better than another. The headset mics are better than lapels Crown 311 is better than Countryman e6 is better than any lapel but the biggest factor is the closer you can get the element to the sound source the better the result.

My tests would suggest that the Crown will probably get you about 12 dB more GBF than the Countryman in what I consider typical use.  But they are more difficult to work with and I find them rather fragile.

[Andrew Makinson]

Hello everyone.  I am in search of a really good lapel and headworn mic for my sennheiser evolution body pack.  Right now i am using the Audio Technica body pack with the standard lapel and headworn and they absolutely do not work.  Granted, i know that they gain before feedback wont be what it is on a handheld, but i cannot get any volume without multiple feedback points from these mics.  I am done with Audio Technica!  Price is no object.  I want something that is going to perform in live applications without having to notch every frequency.  Thanks so much for the input.

I used to use dozens of AT miniature condenser mics when I was doing theater.  They were all omni and I was quite pleased with them.

No one has yet mentioned the DPA d:fine in cardioid and I don't have any firsthand experience with it.  I do have reason to look into it, so I hope some of you who have used them will give opinions.  My use would be for a pastor who is very dynamic and could use about 4dB more gain than I can squeeze out of the e6.

[Weogo Reed]

Hi Tracy,

Headsets can work very well.
The cardioid Sennheiser HSP 4 headset mic sounds very good and has very good gain before feedback.
With windscreen, it is only a little larger than the common omni elements.
Optimal placement is important.
Any of the omni headsets are a close second.

Some talking heads will only use a single earset mic.
In that case I would go with something omni, because these tend to move around a bit.

Some talking heads will only use a lav.
So you might as well learn to optimize what you get out of a lav.

I regularly work with two guys that won't wear a mic, but they are happy with a handheld!
 
Good health,  Weogo

Hello everyone.  I am in search of a really good lapel and headworn mic for my sennheiser evolution body pack.  Right now i am using the Audio Technica body pack with the standard lapel and headworn and they absolutely do not work.  Granted, i know that they gain before feedback wont be what it is on a handheld, but i cannot get any volume without multiple feedback points from these mics.  I am done with Audio Technica!  Price is no object.  I want something that is going to perform in live applications without having to notch every frequency.  Thanks so much for the input.

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