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[Stan Shields]

Soundcraft Expression solutions here.

Hope I'm posting this in the right place.
I'm attempting to map the USB channels of the Expression to Waves MultiRack. The goal is to have plug-ins running in the insert points of some input channels and some mix busses. I don't need the direct outs mapped to a DAW while doing this although if it could be made to work I wouldn't complain. So far, the numbering scheme between the Expression "Insert setup" page, the MADI/USB card and Waves MultiRack makes my head spin like a Leslie. Anybody have any experience doing this?

[Michael Thompson]

Hope I'm posting this in the right place.
I'm attempting to map the USB channels of the Expression to Waves MultiRack. The goal is to have plug-ins running in the insert points of some input channels and some mix busses. I don't need the direct outs mapped to a DAW while doing this although if it could be made to work I wouldn't complain. So far, the numbering scheme between the Expression "Insert setup" page, the MADI/USB card and Waves MultiRack makes my head spin like a Leslie. Anybody have any experience doing this?

Sure, I do it all the time.  I believe the card has some jumpers that could change the numbering, but the default settings use 1-32 as inputs from your madi connected stage box (if you're using one).  33-64 will map to 1-32 from your DAW or waves multirack rig.  Example: make an insert on channel one of your expression, make the insert patches digital out 33 and digital in 33, waves will see this as I/O channel 1.  Hope that helps.

[Ian Bethell]

I am having an issue with using the Visi remote app and VCA's... basically, each and every time the desk will crash when switching from inputs to VCA's on the iPad app while a VCA is being controlled on the desk.

I have made a video showing the issue here: https://youtu.be/wPrhG8Mqzzc

[Tony Hans]

Sure, I do it all the time.  I believe the card has some jumpers that could change the numbering, but the default settings use 1-32 as inputs from your madi connected stage box (if you're using one).  33-64 will map to 1-32 from your DAW or waves multirack rig.  Example: make an insert on channel one of your expression, make the insert patches digital out 33 and digital in 33, waves will see this as I/O channel 1.  Hope that helps.
[/quote


Hi this is great, just what I've been searching for! Could you please give us a walk through of how to setup waves multirack native to use on aux busses also? I am going to try the channel insert patches from out digital  33 and and digital in 33 to see if this works for the channels for me I tried this briefly but was getting no signal in waves multirack on my Mac.  I have the si expression with the usb/combo card. 

Do you select channel/input fader 1 on the desk and then inserts from the screen?

Any help would most great-fully be appreciated. Thanks.

[Stan Shields]

Other interesting issue along the same lines: If I assign a channel (a fader) to a stagebox input, the direct out signal shows up at my DAW via my MADI/USB option card. If I change the assignment to an input on the mixer itself it does not.
Any ideas?

[Michael Thompson]

Sure, I do it all the time.  I believe the card has some jumpers that could change the numbering, but the default settings use 1-32 as inputs from your madi connected stage box (if you're using one).  33-64 will map to 1-32 from your DAW or waves multirack rig.  Example: make an insert on channel one of your expression, make the insert patches digital out 33 and digital in 33, waves will see this as I/O channel 1.  Hope that helps.
[/quote


Hi this is great, just what I've been searching for! Could you please give us a walk through of how to setup waves multirack native to use on aux busses also? I am going to try the channel insert patches from out digital  33 and and digital in 33 to see if this works for the channels for me I tried this briefly but was getting no signal in waves multirack on my Mac.  I have the si expression with the usb/combo card. 

Do you select channel/input fader 1 on the desk and then inserts from the screen?

Any help would most great-fully be appreciated. Thanks.

Currently you can't "insert" on a "mix".  So you can't insert a waves plugin via multirack native like you do a channel, but there are ways around it if you want it bad enough.  One way would be to route the mix output to waves (example digital out 33).  Then use another channel of the mixer to return (example from digital in 33).  There are obvious risks of mis-routing and creating feedback loops, but it can be done.  It's worked for FX processing on analog boards for years.  The biggest down side is that you are running through the console twice and therefore adding more latency.  The console itself doesn't add much, but you'll be hard pressed to get each waves insert to have a path less then about 4.5ms plus the console.  So if you run a channel insert and then do this mixbus processing you will be looking at at least around 11ms by the time you ad the console and that assumes you have a pretty stout computer for waves that can keep up with your number of plugins at that speed.  It could easily be twice that pending the buffer size and particular waves plugins you are using.

[Tony Hans]

Currently you can't "insert" on a "mix".  So you can't insert a waves plugin via multirack native like you do a channel, but there are ways around it if you want it bad enough.  One way would be to route the mix output to waves (example digital out 33).  Then use another channel of the mixer to return (example from digital in 33).  There are obvious risks of mis-routing and creating feedback loops, but it can be done.  It's worked for FX processing on analog boards for years.  The biggest down side is that you are running through the console twice and therefore adding more latency.  The console itself doesn't add much, but you'll be hard pressed to get each waves insert to have a path less then about 4.5ms plus the console.  So if you run a channel insert and then do this mixbus processing you will be looking at at least around 11ms by the time you ad the console and that assumes you have a pretty stout computer for waves that can keep up with your number of plugins at that speed.  It could easily be twice that pending the buffer size and particular waves plugins you are using.

Thanks so much for your reply.  Ok so just to let you know I am a novice to the waves environment and to using send and returns on a digital desk, always used built in features!

So I haven't actually used or tested the signal from the desk to the Mac for waves and back to the desk to see if it's all working on a channel insert yet, but if it's as simple as selecting the channel/fader and then the inserts menu from the menu screen and then the inserts setup on insert one then this should be fine. I will forget the option to send to a mix bus, but what if I wanted to run a plugin on the master LR bus, say a SSL master bus compressor how would this be achieved?

Sorry to be a pain, but an explaination / understanding of the signal flow and desk routing for me would be great!

Thanks again.

[Michael Thompson]

Thanks so much for your reply.  Ok so just to let you know I am a novice to the waves environment and to using send and returns on a digital desk, always used built in features!

So I haven't actually used or tested the signal from the desk to the Mac for waves and back to the desk to see if it's all working on a channel insert yet, but if it's as simple as selecting the channel/fader and then the inserts menu from the menu screen and then the inserts setup on insert one then this should be fine. I will forget the option to send to a mix bus, but what if I wanted to run a plugin on the master LR bus, say a SSL master bus compressor how would this be achieved?

Sorry to be a pain, but an explaination / understanding of the signal flow and desk routing for me would be great!

Thanks again.

Same thing, there isn't really a good way to do it (insert on master) on the expression or performer consoles.  In fact, not that long ago the expression could only do 4 inserts.  Now it's up to 22.  It's a limiting desk in this respect.  Inserts are pre fader only etc. etc... Personally, in most cases I wouldn't bother with waves over the onboard processing.  Don't get me wrong, I love the CLA, SSL and many others from waves.  I just don't NEED them.  It can be a way to add an automixer to the system though and that can be really useful for some applications.

[Tony Hans]

Same thing, there isn't really a good way to do it (insert on master) on the expression or performer consoles.  In fact, not that long ago the expression could only do 4 inserts.  Now it's up to 22.  It's a limiting desk in this respect.  Inserts are pre fader only etc. etc... Personally, in most cases I wouldn't bother with waves over the onboard processing.  Don't get me wrong, I love the CLA, SSL and many others from waves.  I just don't NEED them.  It can be a way to add an automixer to the system though and that can be really useful for some applications.

Thanks Michael, will use for some vocal proccessing and see how this goes, I have the C6 multiband compressor and will give that a whirl and see if the IR Live reverb is any good!

[Ben Easler]

I used Multirack via usb for the first time with a Soundcraft Impact a couple weekends ago and loved it. I was able to put it on the main LR/M outputs and  also could on mix busses with the same method which was just hitting the select for the master fader or mix bus on the Impact. I had been using an Expression 3 at the venue I normally am at and assumed that it would work on that board as well. Is this not the case still? It worked so beautifully though. I had about 30 plugin instances going and had no signs of issue in this first test run.