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Author Topic: Send main out to matrix first  (Read 11758 times)

Ryan Jodrell

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Re: Send main out to matrix first
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2013, 04:52:44 pm »

I usually route everything through matrixes- subs, fills, zones as well as L/R. This seems to allow me the most flexibility in my work flow. I will have FF, sub and zones from an aux fed to matrixes, so I can can choose L/R to feed them or individual channels to augment or supplement those mixes.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Send main out to matrix first
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2013, 04:55:46 pm »

I usually route everything through matrixes- subs, fills, zones as well as L/R. This seems to allow me the most flexibility in my work flow. I will have FF, sub and zones from an aux fed to matrixes, so I can can choose L/R to feed them or individual channels to augment or supplement those mixes.

If you mean adding individual input channels to the matrix on top of the main stereo feed you should avoid doing that with a digital console. There will be a difference in latency between the 2 versions of the input that will cause comb filtering, which usually sounds like hollowness.

Mac
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Greg_Cameron

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Re: Send main out to matrix first
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2013, 05:18:36 pm »

If you mean adding individual input channels to the matrix on top of the main stereo feed you should avoid doing that with a digital console. There will be a difference in latency between the 2 versions of the input that will cause comb filtering, which usually sounds like hollowness.

I use a matrix feed to the output on my Venue for cheapy recorders like my Zoom to pad down the level from the main L/R feed. But since my venue isn't that big and the guitar stage volume warrants minimal guitar in the mains, I take a tap from the guitar subgroup and route that to the matrix as well (which does have a bus compressor inserted). With the delay compensation turned on for for Mix & Inserts, I don't get the combing. Haven't tried it with other desks though.
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Jerome Malsack

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Re: Send main out to matrix first
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2013, 08:49:28 pm »

My older mixer does not have matrix mixing.  I have my system sent out a L/R mix into a Rane SM26 signal splitter.
That way when recording I can keep the mains up and adjust the Rane to control the house.  With the church work I am able to run a my FOH and then with two more outputs from the Rane send a second line out to some Behringer Sharks for Delays and then into amps and speakers for keeping the Foh and seconds around the 96 db area and keeping the FOH from being overpowering.  The Rane will allow me to keep FOH in L/R and side fills as combined mono.  I save the mono output on the mixer for the video tape.    The mixer is an older EV M4 32 channel. 
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Andrew Makinson

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Re: Send main out to matrix first
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2013, 10:23:20 pm »

If you mean adding individual input channels to the matrix on top of the main stereo feed you should avoid doing that with a digital console. There will be a difference in latency between the 2 versions of the input that will cause comb filtering, which usually sounds like hollowness.

Mac

Mac, There are some digital desks that effectively compensate for bus path latency.  Have you experimented with this on CL series desks?  In a quick experiment I couldn't duplicate the hollowness that I'm used to demonstrating on the other Yamaha desks.  I'll have to try it again sometime soon.
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Samuel Rees

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Re: Send main out to matrix first
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2013, 10:34:10 pm »

Mac, There are some digital desks that effectively compensate for bus path latency.  Have you experimented with this on CL series desks?  In a quick experiment I couldn't duplicate the hollowness that I'm used to demonstrating on the other Yamaha desks.  I'll have to try it again sometime soon.

Happens super clearly on my Si Compact, which I talked with some people around here just a little while ago. I've only ever done vocals only in my front fills, though I don't use them crazy often. Hopefully will more in the future! I've got a little touring gig coming up, might bring the desk.
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Mac Kerr

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Delay compensation
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2013, 10:48:45 pm »

Mac, There are some digital desks that effectively compensate for bus path latency.  Have you experimented with this on CL series desks?  In a quick experiment I couldn't duplicate the hollowness that I'm used to demonstrating on the other Yamaha desks.  I'll have to try it again sometime soon.

AFAIK no Yamaha console has latency compensation. The net result of latency compensation is that all signals are delayed to the maximum latency through the console to make up for their shorter latency than other channels.

I don't know what consoles other than Avid do this, but there are probably some, I would doubt many.

Mac
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Nathan Salt

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Re: Send main out to matrix first
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2013, 10:57:55 pm »

all the midas digital desks do it
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Josh Hana

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Re: Send main out to matrix first
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2013, 11:19:10 am »

all the midas digital desks do it

I think Midas (always-on) and Avid (selectable) are the only ones that offer automatic delay compensation.
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Ryan Jodrell

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Re: Send main out to matrix first
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2013, 02:48:50 pm »

There will be a difference in latency between the 2 versions of the input that will cause comb filtering

Interesting. Curious where the added latency would come from though- inputs hit the A/D at roughly the same time, and once they are in the digital domain where does the latency come from? How does this factor in on a console with a near-zero total latency spec. of 0.8ms?
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Re: Send main out to matrix first
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2013, 02:48:50 pm »


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