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Author Topic: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"  (Read 19302 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2013, 05:38:18 pm »

... that doesen't mean that they understand how to actually use it.
A 4 box of anything is NOT a line array. I don't give a shit what the noiseboy at GuitarWarehouse thinks, or recommends.
There are many places where 850's and the like will easily outperform a too-short array that ends up too close to the ground.
You never seem to see people looking for the 4-a-side-hang asking about towers to get the fuckin things up where they WERE DESIGNED to be hung. It always seems to go "I'll get the bare minimum now, and expand later." Well guess what, the bare minimum is not 3 or 4 boxes. more like 12-15 boxes. Now you're getting serious. Still inexpensive enough for you ??

The text in bold highlights the origin of my comment about "buying a line array on the box-a-month plan."  You shouldn't do it if you care about the audible results you dispense, and if the clients and BEs are unhappy with the performance you can bet you won't be buying another month's boxes.

It's all about AUDIENCE GEOMETRY.  Repeat that until you understand and grok the concept that it is necessary to design & deploy the array in such a way as to cover the area the audience will occupy, and to do so with the greatest uniformity of level at the widest frequency range.  Everything you know about covering an audience with a conventional rig will not apply.

It will be necessary to use the manufacturer's prediction software to determine the coverage, and if you decide on a DB Technologies rig I *strongly* suggest that you use EASE Focus 2 rather than DVA Composer, especially if you do a T8 or T4 under-hang.
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Sean Thomas

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2013, 06:00:29 pm »

It will be necessary to use the manufacturer's prediction software to determine the coverage, and if you decide on a DB Technologies rig I *strongly* suggest that you use EASE Focus 2 rather than DVA Composer, especially if you do a T8 or T4 under-hang.

What are the issues of DVA Comp vs. EASE?
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2013, 06:06:36 pm »

What are the issues of DVA Comp vs. EASE?

Try them both, it'll answer your question. 
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Jeff Robinson

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2013, 06:10:08 pm »

Exactly my point about the print industry, recording industry, and video industry.  The old school, with their super high end computers and printers were destroyed by desktop publishing.  The audio recording, video production and post production industries have all dramatically changed becuase the tools got cheaper.  And the entrenched yell that the newbs don't have skills and don't know what they are doing......but they are the ones getting the jobs.

I'm sure some of this might relate to newbs buying line arrays.

In the end, it's not about the tools but the skills of those with the tools.  As must be the case with the 850 rig I've heard.

My family background is typography and I can hardly stand to read anything (other than published novels) without seeing typographical mistakes galore (I only have a few kilohours of proofreading under my belt, for instance the Seattle phone book back in the 70's).

This just means that as tools get cheaper the skill set(s) needed to use them get ignored (like spelling now, I see mispellings on every page of every newspaper I've read for the last several years). Consider the lowly hole-saw, very few seem to know the bigger the hole, the slower the RPM to avoid burning it up. It is a poor workman that blames the tool for his deficiencies.

Jeff Robinson
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Tim Perry

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2013, 08:11:44 pm »

The text in bold highlights the origin of my comment about "buying a line array on the box-a-month plan."  You shouldn't do it if you care about the audible results you dispense, and if the clients and BEs are unhappy with the performance you can bet you won't be buying another month's boxes.

It's all about AUDIENCE GEOMETRY.  Repeat that until you understand and grok the concept that it is necessary to design & deploy the array in such a way as to cover the area the audience will occupy, and to do so with the greatest uniformity of level at the widest frequency range.  Everything you know about covering an audience with a conventional rig will not apply.

It will be necessary to use the manufacturer's prediction software to determine the coverage, and if you decide on a DB Technologies rig I *strongly* suggest that you use EASE Focus 2 rather than DVA Composer, especially if you do a T8 or T4 under-hang.

Oddly enough, I experienced one this weekend. Sound was quite good.  Subs were Mackie actives, one in front of another on each side.

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John Chiara

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2013, 08:29:22 pm »

Oddly enough, I experienced one this weekend. Sound was quite good.  Subs were Mackie actives, one in front of another on each side.

Quick question. Looking at that stage setup, did the event require and/or pay for real line arrays with lifts, etc?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2013, 09:01:49 pm »

Quick question. Looking at that stage setup, did the event require and/or pay for real line arrays with lifts, etc?
Sometimes you use what you have-even if the budget does not support it.

I used to take out gear all the time for shows that did not require it or pay for it.

But it was less expensive for them than renting something smaller or buying something smaller.

Of course it is exactly that attitude that makes people who are "at the right level" with gear get mad.

But I was hired for the job that I did-much more often than the gear that I had.
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boburtz

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2013, 09:49:11 pm »

I wonder what noise boy thinks about the rearward lobe of a zero degree ground stacked array.
Nothing like running monitors behind a 6' tall ground stack of small line arrays on a medium sized stage... Ear plugs under my noise canceling headphones is no match for that lobe.
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Tim Perry

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2013, 12:22:15 am »

Quick question. Looking at that stage setup, did the event require and/or pay for real line arrays with lifts, etc?

No, i could have done this with 2 K-10's and 2 K-subs.

The promoters were hoping for a much larger turnout.
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2013, 03:42:38 am »

Hmmm....

A couple of observations:

First, Ivan makes a good point about using what you have. It would be nice if every job had the PA it needed to sound the best it could. In fact, very few actually do. I say this all the time, and I'll say it again: When choosing a sound system, be it for purchase or 'deployment' at a gig, sound quality just isn't the primary factor any more...

This is partly because actually overall, PA sounds better today than it ever has, and at a lower price point. Once you get into the big leagues, it pretty much all sounds great. So there are more assurances of performance.

But its mainly because budgets are tight, and logistical factors play a much bigger factor than most end-users understand.

Its very easy to look from the outside and criticise, but once you have all the facts, the decision becomes a very different one.

Secondly, although the line array is often not the best acoustical solution (particularly in smaller spaces, once you get to arenas, you end up needing a big pile of boxes either way and the arguments start to even out...), it is the perfect jack-of-all-trades solution. And ultimately, that is what the industry demands. As an engineer, its always nice to be on a job where budget and logistics were such that the best acoustical solution could be used, but thats rare.

In short. As an engineer I want to mix on the best solution every time...

But as a business owner, I'd like to own one box and have it do everything :-)

Live sound is one giant compromise. Get used to it...
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Riedel Communications

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Re: Line Arrays - "Deployed Wrong"
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2013, 03:42:38 am »


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