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[John Sabine]

I posted this on my X32 vs Presonus console thread but thought it might be important enough to post by itself.

Ok.. adding to anomalies that I've had with the X32.
 
1) Had set up the console before a gig. Everything patched and routed and checked with audio before I saved the preset and shut down the console. The next day I get to the gig and discover that although I had tested all channels the day before, suddenly channels 25-32 will not pass audio. I'm getting input signal but no output. After a quick check and no results I just swap those inputs to 17-24 ( I was mixing a festival with multiple bands and had left those open for whatever people carted in that I hadn't accounted for) and everything works fine. A little rerouting and reconfiguring and I'm on my way. I checked channels 25- 32 in my spare time though the day to see if I could find the problem but found nothing and still no audio. Fast forward to the next job. Forgetting about the audio problem of the week before I wire up, switch on, plug my pink noise into input 32 and AUDIO!!.. I checked all inputs 25-32 and all now had audio. I didn't save the last show as a preset and last I checked the console on the gig before they were still dead. I even tried power cycling the console at the gig before but still nothing.. Weirdness.

2) Got to a gig yesterday. I was using bus 1-5 for monitor mixes. I set up all of my mixes when I got there and then turned each bus master down. A while later I go back to fine tune my monitor mixes. bus 1 master up, sounds good, bus 2 master up, sounds good, bus 3 master up, monitors come up but will not turn back down with the bus. The prefade send from each channel to bus 3 works but the bus master slide does not turn change the level of the overall mix. I check bus 4 and the same thing. Bring the bus master up and the level of the monitor 4 mix comes up but turn the master back down and the level stays the same. I check all monitor mixes and the master bus for 1, 2, and 5 work fine but 3 and 4 don't effect monitor level at all. I check my patches, I even copy and paste the setting from the busses that are working properly but still no change. I finally decide to just roll with it because I need to get sound check completed. Later I think to check the output assigns and on the iPad the IO assigns read much differently than they actually do on the console. On the iPad the IO assigns are crazily different but on the console 1-32 in are assigned to corresponding channels and the outputs are assigned to where I had assigned them. In checking this though I found my problem with the monitors. The 3 and 4 analog outs had somehow switched to pre-fade. I would have thought I touched something accidentally except that when they started malfunctioning I had simply pushed the bus master up on the iPad, spoken into a microphone, and then tried to bring the bus level back down but the signal didn't change.
I'm going to try to reload or update the software on the console and my iPad but if more weirdness like this happens I'm going to have to re-think this. A FOH guy I worked with last week said that he's had problems with the X32 not properly recalling his presets from usb and is actually thinking about removing it from his tech rider as an option. He said that on a couple of occasions involving different x32's that MOST of his preset will recall but he ended up having to dig in and find where a problem was when an insert or eq wasn't properly executed. This guys preset was very complex, with 16 channels of mix dedicated to 4 guitar amps alone, not to mention all of the semi normal stuff and poking around trying to find where the problem was had been very time consuming.

[Loren Aguey]

I posted this on my X32 vs Presonus console thread but thought it might be important enough to post by itself.

Ok.. adding to anomalies that I've had with the X32.
 
1) Had set up the console before a gig. Everything patched and routed and checked with audio before I saved the preset and shut down the console. The next day I get to the gig and discover that although I had tested all channels the day before, suddenly channels 25-32 will not pass audio. I'm getting input signal but no output. After a quick check and no results I just swap those inputs to 17-24 ( I was mixing a festival with multiple bands and had left those open for whatever people carted in that I hadn't accounted for) and everything works fine. A little rerouting and reconfiguring and I'm on my way. I checked channels 25- 32 in my spare time though the day to see if I could find the problem but found nothing and still no audio. Fast forward to the next job. Forgetting about the audio problem of the week before I wire up, switch on, plug my pink noise into input 32 and AUDIO!!.. I checked all inputs 25-32 and all now had audio. I didn't save the last show as a preset and last I checked the console on the gig before they were still dead. I even tried power cycling the console at the gig before but still nothing.. Weirdness.

2) Got to a gig yesterday. I was using bus 1-5 for monitor mixes. I set up all of my mixes when I got there and then turned each bus master down. A while later I go back to fine tune my monitor mixes. bus 1 master up, sounds good, bus 2 master up, sounds good, bus 3 master up, monitors come up but will not turn back down with the bus. The prefade send from each channel to bus 3 works but the bus master slide does not turn change the level of the overall mix. I check bus 4 and the same thing. Bring the bus master up and the level of the monitor 4 mix comes up but turn the master back down and the level stays the same. I check all monitor mixes and the master bus for 1, 2, and 5 work fine but 3 and 4 don't effect monitor level at all. I check my patches, I even copy and paste the setting from the busses that are working properly but still no change. I finally decide to just roll with it because I need to get sound check completed. Later I think to check the output assigns and on the iPad the IO assigns read much differently than they actually do on the console. On the iPad the IO assigns are crazily different but on the console 1-32 in are assigned to corresponding channels and the outputs are assigned to where I had assigned them. In checking this though I found my problem with the monitors. The 3 and 4 analog outs had somehow switched to pre-fade. I would have thought I touched something accidentally except that when they started malfunctioning I had simply pushed the bus master up on the iPad, spoken into a microphone, and then tried to bring the bus level back down but the signal didn't change.
I'm going to try to reload or update the software on the console and my iPad but if more weirdness like this happens I'm going to have to re-think this. A FOH guy I worked with last week said that he's had problems with the X32 not properly recalling his presets from usb and is actually thinking about removing it from his tech rider as an option. He said that on a couple of occasions involving different x32's that MOST of his preset will recall but he ended up having to dig in and find where a problem was when an insert or eq wasn't properly executed. This guys preset was very complex, with 16 channels of mix dedicated to 4 guitar amps alone, not to mention all of the semi normal stuff and poking around trying to find where the problem was had been very time consuming.

We have 3 now and all of them had issues. The first one was a simple fix of re-seating a ribbon cable and has performed perfectly. The second one, took a huge shit on monitor duty during a festival. Similar to your issue, bus masters AND sends would max out on when switching layers. Obviously this is a nightmare for monitors, and luckily we had another x32 for a club install that hadn't opened yet.

Swapped it and got through the day. Then the same console that saved us started having phantom power issues, some channels it wouldn't turn on, some it wouldn't turn off.

Both have been sent back and fixed hassle free with no charge for repairs or shipping. So I'll give a nod to the Music Group for the service.

However that's technically 3/3 with issues, two of which had to be sent back for repair. Not to mention, the loaner X32 that a Behringer rep was nice to loan us during our most recent repair, has a non functioning headphone amp, and as of a couple nights ago one of the output faders stopped functioning.

So...yeah. Despite the excellent response from Behringer addressing the issues, and how well designed the console is, I'm quite frustrated with the fact that all 3 have had issues.

[Tim McCulloch]

We have 3 now and all of them had issues. The first one was a simple fix of re-seating a ribbon cable and has performed perfectly. The second one, took a huge shit on monitor duty during a festival. Similar to your issue, bus masters AND sends would max out on when switching layers. Obviously this is a nightmare for monitors, and luckily we had another x32 for a club install that hadn't opened yet.

Swapped it and got through the day. Then the same console that saved us started having phantom power issues, some channels it wouldn't turn on, some it wouldn't turn off.

Both have been sent back and fixed hassle free with no charge for repairs or shipping. So I'll give a nod to the Music Group for the service.

However that's technically 3/3 with issues, two of which had to be sent back for repair. Not to mention, the loaner X32 that a Behringer rep was nice to loan us during our most recent repair, has a non functioning headphone amp, and as of a couple nights ago one of the output faders stopped functioning.

So...yeah. Despite the excellent response from Behringer addressing the issues, and how well designed the console is, I'm quite frustrated with the fact that all 3 have had issues.

This is sufficient to remove the X32 from our consideration.  Thanks for posting, we'll find another "value" mixer for those applications.

[Loren Aguey]

This is sufficient to remove the X32 from our consideration.  Thanks for posting, we'll find another "value" mixer for those applications.

Well, to be fair, they've sold a ton of these and it's my understanding that the overall failure rate is very low. A couple other companies I freelance for have a couple X32's and have had zero issues and those are getting shlepped around all the time. So I'm thinking I've just been unlucky in this regard. And I think its one of those situations where people make a bunch of noise when something fails yet when it works perfectly you don't hear about it.

And it may sound dumb given my previous post, but the X32 is still my go to for any future purchases where a small digital console is needed. I use it 3-4 nights a week in 2 different clubs and fairly regularly on other gigs, and I've grown to really love the design and workflow. And the ipad app is fantastic and keeps getting better. The 2 S16 stageboxes we have installed at one club have been flawless as well.

If I hadn't received the level of service I've received, it'd be a different story. But despite the issues, I still don't feel that the x32 is as a whole an entirely unreliable desk and clearly the way they've handled everything they are taking this seriously.

[Tim McCulloch]

Loren, I don't care how many units work okay, but that YOU got THREE IN A ROW that were fucked up.  With a relatively random sample, that's not good at all.

Our use of the X32 would have been a discount "value" market, but that means stuff still has to work... at a lower gross we can't be handing out refunds or discounts because a piece of gear failed.

And to be fair, it's not just your experience, Loren, but the accumulated issues and NEW problems that are surfacing.  The reports here of outputs mysteriously stopping or faders not behaving correctly when switching layers or on scene recalls are not the only mentions of these problems.  We simply can't risk these on shows with our name on them.  Throw in that our first unit would probably be a personal purchase by me... and I'm not spending my own $ (or my employer's $) on something whose reputation is going down, not up.

We'll find a different console to fill our "value market" needs.  And that's too bad, I really wanted to like the X32.

[Loren Aguey]

Loren, I don't care how many units work okay, but that YOU got THREE IN A ROW that were fucked up.  With a relatively random sample, that's not good at all.

Our use of the X32 would have been a discount "value" market, but that means stuff still has to work... at a lower gross we can't be handing out refunds or discounts because a piece of gear failed.

And to be fair, it's not just your experience, Loren, but the accumulated issues and NEW problems that are surfacing.  The reports here of outputs mysteriously stopping or faders not behaving correctly when switching layers or on scene recalls are not the only mentions of these problems.  We simply can't risk these on shows with our name on them.  Throw in that our first unit would probably be a personal purchase by me... and I'm not spending my own $ (or my employer's $) on something whose reputation is going down, not up.

We'll find a different console to fill our "value market" needs.  And that's too bad, I really wanted to like the X32.

I see what you saying and understand your position. I certainly won't try to convince you otherwise. But again, to be fair, one of them wasn't fucked up just had a loosely seated ribbon cable and was fine. Our SC48 arrived with the same issue on the output card, but the ribbon cable wasn't even plugged in.

Anyway, I still think its a great console. The new and more reputable Soundcraft Expression is also not without its issues (apparently of the 'entire console freezes' variety).

We'll see how our X32's hold up over the next few years. Hard numbers over a longer period of time will reveal the true reliability of all of these new cheaper consoles.

[Henry Moreau]

So really only one faulty X32 then, Loren.

You know everyone out there in pro audio land is just chomping at the bit to say bad things about the X32 and look for the FEW bad post about a FEW bad units.
Heck when Yamaha first started putting out digital consoles they had THOUSANDS of bad units yet still everyone has them.

There is more I could say about the haters but I'll let that go. For the X32 is still more of a digital console than ones coasting twice plus it meager price.

[Mac Kerr]

Heck when Yamaha first started putting out digital consoles they had THOUSANDS of bad units yet still everyone has them.

Maybe you could provide a link to something that backs up that statement.

Mac

[Henry Moreau]

Maybe you could provide a link to something that backs up that statement.

Mac

No need ... you know the score if your in the pro biz. Heck even Midas had thousands of bad digital console out of the gate.

But if you want you can go in search of - remember google is your friend. 

[Mac Kerr]

No need ... you know the score if your in the pro biz. Heck even Midas had thousands of bad digital console out of the gate.

But if you want you can go in search of - remember google is your friend. 

I'm not making an unsubstantiated claim, you are. But I am the administrator here who is asking you to back up your wild claim.

I have been using digital consoles since 2001. The majority of them have been Yamaha, with some Avid, and Studer thrown in along the way. Between 1976 and 2001 it was mostly Yamaha 3k, 4k, and Midas XL3 and H3000 analog. IIRC I have experienced 1 Yamaha DM2000 digital failure, 1 Behringer DDX failure, 1 DDA failure, 1 Soundcraft Europa failure, and 2 Midas H3000 failures. That would be 2 digital console failures, and 4 analog failures. The DM2000, DDX, and DDA were PS failures, the Europa and H3000 were console automation failures that locked up the console. Somehow I seem to have missed those thousands of Yamaha failures, and even the thousands of bad Midas consoles.

Mac

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