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Author Topic: Move the rack *where*? Umm....  (Read 6400 times)

Joseph D. Macry

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Re: Move the rack *where*? Umm....
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2013, 05:39:23 pm »

What's it sitting on?? Looks like a storage bin.  ???
 
My first thought is to hang it on a wall someplace but I can't see what the rest of the room looks like or how big it is. You guys are right on about the NEC clearance violation of Art 110(26). 6.5 feet high from the floor, 30 inches wide and 3 feet in front.
 
-Hal

We decided to place the rack on the floor about a foot to the right of the panel.
The rack is currently sitting on an empty rack box from a previous install. They say it can now sit on the floor. (It's a "set and forget" sort of system.)
The wall to the left is not fire rated. Note the wooden door which leads to the Sanctuary. Even if it was, I am not the guy cutting the window nor installing the organ parts. That is between the church and another contractor. My job, for now, is simply to move the rack out of the way.
Did you hear the one about the streaker who ran through the church? They caught him by the organ.....
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Joseph Macry,
Austin, TX

Jason Lavoie

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Re: Move the rack *where*? Umm....
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2013, 01:22:15 pm »

We decided to place the rack on the floor about a foot to the right of the panel.
The rack is currently sitting on an empty rack box from a previous install. They say it can now sit on the floor. (It's a "set and forget" sort of system.)
The wall to the left is not fire rated. Note the wooden door which leads to the Sanctuary. Even if it was, I am not the guy cutting the window nor installing the organ parts. That is between the church and another contractor. My job, for now, is simply to move the rack out of the way.
Did you hear the one about the streaker who ran through the church? They caught him by the organ.....

If they don't need to get at the rack then why not mount it up high instead of leaving it on the floor?
your wires have to go up to get around the door anyway.

Jason
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Tim Padrick

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Re: Move the rack *where*? Umm....
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2013, 09:22:06 pm »

Every now and then I get a big hum on vocal 1 or 2.  I go up on stage and sure enough, one of the musos has moved the mic offstage and put it in front of the breaker box.  Would I put a rack anywhere near a breaker box or disconnect?  Certainly not.  Then there's the code issues.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Move the rack *where*? Umm....
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2013, 09:43:31 pm »

Every now and then I get a big hum on vocal 1 or 2.  I go up on stage and sure enough, one of the musos has moved the mic offstage and put it in front of the breaker box.
If the mic is not being used-then it should be turned off.  How often does somebody sing next to the breaker panel anyway?
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Joseph D. Macry

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Re: Move the rack *where*? Umm....
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2013, 11:32:03 am »

If they don't need to get at the rack then why not mount it up high instead of leaving it on the floor?
your wires have to go up to get around the door anyway.

Jason

The existing rack is not a wall-mount model. The rector was perfectly happy with the rack sitting on the floor. He even asked me to not set it on the old, empty rack that was underneath, but set it directly on the carpet. They use this system in a "set-and-forget" fashion; all they do with the rack is turn it on and off. Yes, I ran wires up and over the door, and along the floorboards to the new rack location about 2 feet to the right of the breaker panel. No buzz or hum was detected on any channel including wireless mics.

They had also reported a "crackling noise" in the five ceiling speakers which are delayed in the rear of the sanctuary. I heard this noise as brief dropouts during loudest parts of speech. I found it coincided with the 70-volt amp (RDL model FP-PA35A) hitting the compressor circuit which kicks in 2db before peaking. RDL says the compressor should not be causing dropouts, yet it was. No way to defeat the compressor. So I lowered the gain on this amp, made it up by turning up the autoformer volume control on the back wall, and it worked much better.
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Joseph Macry,
Austin, TX

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Move the rack *where*? Umm....
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2013, 12:32:24 pm »



They had also reported a "crackling noise" in the five ceiling speakers which are delayed in the rear of the sanctuary. I heard this noise as brief dropouts during loudest parts of speech. I found it coincided with the 70-volt amp (RDL model FP-PA35A) hitting the compressor circuit which kicks in 2db before peaking. RDL says the compressor should not be causing dropouts, yet it was. No way to defeat the compressor. So I lowered the gain on this amp, made it up by turning up the autoformer volume control on the back wall, and it worked much better.
It could be that due to improper gain structure setup, the amp was being asked to do much more than it was expecting (could be the load is also to great for the amp-causing additional issues and the amp was simply "shutting down" to protect itself.  Not the amps fault.

But I could be wrong.  Very often the gear gets blamed-when it is actually the USER that is at fault-but it is MUCH easier to blame the gear.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Joseph D. Macry

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Re: Move the rack *where*? Umm....
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2013, 02:03:48 pm »

It could be that due to improper gain structure setup, the amp was being asked to do much more than it was expecting (could be the load is also to great for the amp-causing additional issues and the amp was simply "shutting down" to protect itself.  Not the amps fault.

But I could be wrong.  Very often the gear gets blamed-when it is actually the USER that is at fault-but it is MUCH easier to blame the gear.

Ivan, I did explain the whole thing to RDL. 35 watt 70V amp driving 5 x 5 watt speakers via wall-mount volume knob. They said that regardless of the autoformer volume control setting, the compressor should be compressing, not dropping out. Still, we got it working well without hitting the compressor, and client declined to demand a replacement.
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Joseph Macry,
Austin, TX

Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC

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Re: Move the rack *where*? Umm....
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2013, 05:07:46 pm »

Don't know why you have a compressor just for that amp. (Do you?) The compressor should be for the entire system.
 
It does sound like that amp was going into protection. How did you determine your levels? Those LED indicators on the equipment aren't terribly accurate.
 
-Hal
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Joseph D. Macry

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Re: Move the rack *where*? Umm....
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2013, 11:46:00 am »

Don't know why you have a compressor just for that amp. (Do you?) The compressor should be for the entire system.
 
It does sound like that amp was going into protection. How did you determine your levels? Those LED indicators on the equipment aren't terribly accurate.
 
-Hal

This amp has a built-in compressor that kicks in at 2db before peak. There is no way to defeat it. It was not going into protect mode, as the drop-outs were only small fractions of a second long. It has thermal and short-circuit protection, not overload protection. I am convinced that this is a case of the compressor not working correctly. It's not a rack mount unit, but a small, back-o-the-rack block. Link to the amp: http://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=597
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Joseph Macry,
Austin, TX

Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC

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Re: Move the rack *where*? Umm....
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2013, 01:51:46 pm »

Not familiar with that amp. But if it were me I would put it on the bench with a signal generator, a scope and a dummy load and see what's really happening.
 
-Hal
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