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[Bob Leonard]

Let's see now. Jazz ensemble, tables for food and drink, small room with obstructions, and no dance floor.

You put 85db on the position where the fan hangs over the tables (3rd row) and you're all set. or maybe too loud. You don't need to reinforce the band, regardless of genre. You've already taken two tables, and if people refuse to sit at the closer tables you might as well pack it in and go home. Forget about micing everything in the band and rely on stage volume. You'll get a better mix and people will be happier all around (If the players are any good.) .  Like Dick say's, and combine our experience and you have about 100 years of I told you so.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

That's going in my keeper file:

Bob and Dick
100 years of I told you so...

Have it good....

[Wade Collins]

Maybe I missed it, but what sort of band is this?  Light Jazz?-hard punk? etc.

That can also greatly affect "what you are trying to do" in this situation

We play some acoustic, with a mix of classic rock and some hard rock

[Jeff Bankston]

That's going in my keeper file:

Bob and Dick
100 years of I told you so...

Have it good....

my foto of me looks a lot like Randy Quaid !

[Charlie Zureki]

That's going in my keeper file:

Bob and Dick
100 years of I told you so...

Have it good....

  +1

  Hammer

[Wade Collins]

Let's see now. Jazz ensemble, tables for food and drink, small room with obstructions, and no dance floor.

You put 85db on the position where the fan hangs over the tables (3rd row) and you're all set. or maybe too loud. You don't need to reinforce the band, regardless of genre. You've already taken two tables, and if people refuse to sit at the closer tables you might as well pack it in and go home. Forget about micing everything in the band and rely on stage volume. You'll get a better mix and people will be happier all around (If the players are any good.) .  Like Dick say's, and combine our experience and you have about 100 years of I told you so.

I also forgot to mention, the owner changed the layout to the restaurant a bit (as he took out two tables right in front of where the band would be setting up, and replaced the tables on the side of the restaurant with booths.

If we're just micing the bass drum, D.I.ing the bass out of his amp (and using his amp as a monitor), vocals, and acoustic guitar (not very often) through the p.a., why would this cause us to be any louder than if we did our levels through the bass amp alone, and kick drum acoustically?
And why would relying on stage volume give a better mix?

Thanks for all the responses between you and Dick!

[Mark McFarlane]

...
If we're just micing the bass drum, D.I.ing the bass out of his amp (and using his amp as a monitor), vocals, and acoustic guitar (not very often) through the p.a., why would this cause us to be any louder than if we did our levels through the bass amp alone, and kick drum acoustically?
And why would relying on stage volume give a better mix?

If you mic the kick, and the mic is turned on, then the mic'd kick will be louder than the kick by itself.  If you don't want it louder, don't mic it.  In a room this small you simply don't need and reinforcement for kick and bass, unless the bass player is using a 5 watt amp.

Assuming your PA speakers are in front of the band, if you don't mic the instruments, then what you hear on stage will be closer to what the audience hears (assuming your amps are off the floor), hence you will have an easier time mixing from stage.

Basically, you don't need to put instruments in the PA in a room this small, so why worry about it. Keep it simple.

As an alternative, don't use any amps at all, and run everything through the PA.  Some bands won't like this but I've done it before in small rooms. Put the PA behind the band (A single speaker with sub will do it on this room), up high, in the corner behind the drummer, get the drummer some pencil sized sticks if they play hard, and the audience will hear the exact same thing as the band. and it extremely easy to manage the volume (except for the drums).

If its a restaurant, and you play very loud, you probably wont be asked back.  If you can play at the volume of the restaurant's stereo...

[Ivan Beaver]

Of course it all depends on how loud you want it to be-and what the audience is.

When I lived up in DC, I regularly did a room that only held 50 people.  With the "harder" acts-I would run a 6000 watt triamped system up to the edge of clip.

It was beyond stupid loud-and everybody loved it

Since FOH was only 20' from the PA (it was as far away as I could get) I would put tape over my sonic ear valves (kinda active hearing protection in the old days), then put my headphones on and "hide" behind the effects rack and it was still loud

So it is not just the size of the place-or the number of people-but rather what end result is desired.

I was in a wedding band several decades ago and we would play rooms that would easily hold 1000-2000 people and just run vocals through a pair of Yamaha 15+horns with a 120 watt per channel amp-and STILL be asked to turn it down.  So you never know.

It also highly depends on how loud the particular people play.  A jazz type drummer (even playing rock) is not that loud-and might need to be miced in a place like that.

People often forget that there are some REAL musicians out there who are concerned about sound quality-not just sound quantity.

[Mark McFarlane]

Of course it all depends on how loud you want it to be-and what the audience is....

One takeaway from this, that I don't think has been mentioned, is to talk to the restaurant owner and understand their expectations.  Meet them a few days before the event, before they open for customers. If they have a stereo already, crank it up and ask 'is this too loud',...  If their in-ceiling Bose speakers are already too loud, you know where you are at.  If they say they want dance-club level volumes then mic up the drums.

[Wade Collins]

Of course it all depends on how loud you want it to be-and what the audience is.

When I lived up in DC, I regularly did a room that only held 50 people.  With the "harder" acts-I would run a 6000 watt triamped system up to the edge of clip.

It was beyond stupid loud-and everybody loved it

Since FOH was only 20' from the PA (it was as far away as I could get) I would put tape over my sonic ear valves (kinda active hearing protection in the old days), then put my headphones on and "hide" behind the effects rack and it was still loud

So it is not just the size of the place-or the number of people-but rather what end result is desired.

I was in a wedding band several decades ago and we would play rooms that would easily hold 1000-2000 people and just run vocals through a pair of Yamaha 15+horns with a 120 watt per channel amp-and STILL be asked to turn it down.  So you never know.

It also highly depends on how loud the particular people play.  A jazz type drummer (even playing rock) is not that loud-and might need to be miced in a place like that.

People often forget that there are some REAL musicians out there who are concerned about sound quality-not just sound quantity.

That's the thing I'm after is sound quality, we're not trying to mic the bass drum just to be louder, I was just hoping to add some more of that low oomf, same with the bass guitar.
(the bass players amp will be turned to us as a monitor)
and I was going to feed from my guitar pedal into the pa (not for output, but just for hearing it through the monitors; in other words, no volume out of the FOH speakers but only volume in the pre fader aux sends)
this way; the only stage volume would be from the acoustic drums, and the monitors (including the bass amp being used as a monitor), and the vocals.
I was planning to have the guitar amp up front with the main speakers to avoid bleed into the microphones, plus clear up some space.
My drummer will be plugging headphones into the mixer for a monitor, and that leaves only one monitor for the lead singer/guitarist, and bass player

We're a 3 piece band, I sing and play guitar, and then theres the bassist and drummer.
So all in all,
We'd have to FOH 15s, two 18'' subs, and my guitar amp up in front of everything

The bass gtr, kick, vocals, keyboard, and acoustic gtr through the pa
(along with the guitar through the aux send; no volume, prefader for monitoring purposes)

and then one monitor right in front of the main vocalists mic (close enough for the bass player to hear)
and the bass guitarists amp turned for himself to hear

We like the tone of his amp, and then having it run through the p.a. just adds to it.
I felt that having the addition of the kick's low end oomf through the pa, plus running the bass through the subs would yield a really nice sound, especially if the guitar amp is in line with the other speakers too.
My guitar amp sadly doesn't have a direct out like the bass guitar so this will have to do.

I just want to make it clear what the hopes were, and that I'm not aiming to go loud, just to run it through our pa, with the best sound quality we can get
(hopefully positioning the speakers and subs in the best position possible too, to yield top quality sound)

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