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Author Topic: Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master  (Read 19227 times)

Cliff Fuller

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Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master
« on: July 18, 2013, 03:59:25 pm »

I'm using the Dante Controller software and I'm seeing the following lines in the "Events" tab quite frequently.


"Clock master change on Primary: Device Y001-Yamaha-CL5-0618da no longer clock master"
"Clock master change on Secondary: Device Y001-Yamaha-CL5-0618da no longer clock master"

"Clock master change on Primary: Device Y001-Yamaha-CL5-0618da is now clock master"
"Clock master change on Secondary: Device Y001-Yamaha-CL5-0618da is now clock master"


Can anybody fill me in as to what's happening? Thanks ....
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Josh Millward

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Re: Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2013, 07:24:58 pm »

I'm using the Dante Controller software...

Can anybody fill me in as to what's happening? Thanks ....
Yes, your Dante clock master is changing.

I would expect that you could select one of the Dante devices on your network to be the Preferred Master, or you can just let it change. Theoretically, it shouldn't change often, but may change as devices come onto the network and leave the network.

You should not be able to hear this change. As such, it doesn't really matter that much.
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Josh Millward
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Cliff Fuller

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Re: Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2013, 09:07:32 pm »

Yes, your Dante clock master is changing.

I would expect that you could select one of the Dante devices on your network to be the Preferred Master, or you can just let it change. Theoretically, it shouldn't change often, but may change as devices come onto the network and leave the network.

You should not be able to hear this change. As such, it doesn't really matter that much.
Thanks Josh, I see that it's changing, but every 5 minutes or so is usual?

My concern is about the network switches in use (NetGear JGS516) and their capability to support the activity.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2013, 09:13:58 pm »

Thanks Josh, I see that it's changing, but every 5 minutes or so is usual?

My concern is about the network switches in use (NetGear JGS516) and their capability to support the activity.

The system is designed to be fault tolerant of clock source changes, but every 5 minutes seems excessive. I would be concerned. You should contact Yamaha tech support. Is that switch on Yamaha's list of acceptable switches? Have you defined the secondary clock sources?

Mac
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Cliff Fuller

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Re: Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2013, 09:49:25 pm »

The system is designed to be fault tolerant of clock source changes, but every 5 minutes seems excessive. I would be concerned. You should contact Yamaha tech support. Is that switch on Yamaha's list of acceptable switches? Have you defined the secondary clock sources?

Mac
I don't believe that I hear anything but warnings and errors in the log indicate something isn't right.

I haven't seen a specific list of switches (other than the Ciscos they use), perhaps I've missed it. Having spoken to Yamaha,  they don't "endorse" any switches; there are too many to check. There is no VLAN involved, only 2 CL5s and 2 RIO 3224d boxes.

Yes, the secondary network has the same clock source designated.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2013, 10:14:07 pm »

Yes, the secondary network has the same clock source designated.

Not secondary network, secondary clock source. You should be able to set up a hierarchy of preferred master and secondary master clocks so that if the component that is the master clock fails the system will go to the secondary clock source.

In any case, that many clock changes would seem to be a problem. You should talk to Yamaha tech support about it. You might also ask if they have a list of approved switches, I have been led to believe they do.

Mac
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2013, 10:16:17 pm »

...
"Clock master change on Primary: Device Y001-Yamaha-CL5-0618da no longer clock master"
"Clock master change on Secondary: Device Y001-Yamaha-CL5-0618da no longer clock master"

"Clock master change on Primary: Device Y001-Yamaha-CL5-0618da is now clock master"
"Clock master change on Secondary: Device Y001-Yamaha-CL5-0618da is now clock master"
...

I'm not knowledgable about dante, nor about the CL consoles, but I find it curious that the change appears to be from and to the exact same device.  I assume the red text above is meant to be a unique identifier of the device that is master.  If the clock was changing between consoles, or from console to I/O box, I would expect different red text.

It looks to me like the warning is saying "The master has changed from Bob to Bob, i.e. there was really no change.  Exactly what event monitored by the software triggers this message is unknown, but it could be a bug.  Maybe there is some attempt to measure clock drift, or some other anomaly like short dropouts, and then the system looks for  a new clock.  Yamaha tech support hopefully can help.

Does 0618da show up as an identifier for one of your CL5's in some setup screen?  Hardcoded 'serial number' or user defined option? Is it possible both CL5s have the same identifier?

Edit: Seems like you'd want one CL5 as the master, the other as the secondary,...  Or if the RIO boxes have clocks, and following the 'studio rule of thumb to use the primary AD converter clock to reduce jitter', set one of the RIOs as primary clock.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 04:30:15 am by Mark McFarlane »
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Mark McFarlane
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Josh Millward

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Re: Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2013, 10:31:21 am »

Thanks Josh, I see that it's changing, but every 5 minutes or so is usual?

My concern is about the network switches in use (NetGear JGS516) and their capability to support the activity.
I would not expect it to change that often.

According to what it says on Netgear's website about the NETGEAR NETSAFE JGS516 network switch, I am lead to believe that it should be a suitable option for what you are doing.

In the Dante Controller software, do you actually have one of your devices selected to be the "Preferred Clock Master"?
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Josh Millward
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Riley Casey

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Re: Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2013, 10:43:34 am »

I just bought four of these Netgear GS110TP-100NAS ProSafe GS110TP Ethernet Switch - 8 Port - 2 Slot on the advice of my Yamaha vendor as being recommended by Audinate.  We specifically needed the fiber port though.

I would not expect it to change that often.

According to what it says on Netgear's website about the NETGEAR NETSAFE JGS516 network switch, I am lead to believe that it should be a suitable option for what you are doing.

In the Dante Controller software, do you actually have one of your devices selected to be the "Preferred Clock Master"?

Cliff Fuller

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Re: Yamaha CL / RIO / Dante clock master
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2013, 04:06:17 pm »

Mac Kerr,
"Not secondary network, secondary clock source. You should be able to set up a hierarchy of preferred master and secondary master clocks so that if the component that is the master clock fails the system will go to the secondary clock source."

I would do this via Dante Controller?


Mark McFarlane,
"I'm not knowledgable about dante, nor about the CL consoles, but I find it curious that the change appears to be from and to the exact same device.  I assume the red text above is meant to be a unique identifier of the device that is master.  If the clock was changing between consoles, or from console to I/O box, I would expect different red text.

Does 0618da show up as an identifier for one of your CL5's in some setup screen?  Hardcoded 'serial number' or user defined option? Is it possible both CL5s have the same identifier?

Edit: Seems like you'd want one CL5 as the master, the other as the secondary"

Yes, that red nomenclature is the device identifier. No, separate identifiers.


Josh Millward,
"In the Dante Controller software, do you actually have one of your devices selected to be the "Preferred Clock Master"?"

Yes, I found that if both boards are set as "preferred master" we get audio drop-outs. And thank-you for confirming the NetGear switch.
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