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[lionel rodrigues]

wanna know if placing three tops interlocked horizontally on top of two 728's per side may be used as a temporary solution till I can get some lifts. Until now was working with two tops on a tripod stand along with a single 728. Will probably place the speakers on a low scaffolding or on the edge of the stage.

[Merlijn van Veen]

Sure, as long as you're aware that in this orientation, it's effectively a 45 x 100 (3x15 horz.100 vert.) degree system, which is fairly narrow for most applications. Needless to say that there're al lot of conventional speakers that could do the same job, specifically regarding the horizontal, without the interference pattern. This configuration will however drop faster in level once you go beyond of axis. Also make sure that the array configuration selector is set the same for all speakers, in passive operation. I recommend you position the speakers so that the waveguide sits in the top, not in the bottom, if you haven't done so all ready. Lastly, you'll be sending considerable amounts of energy to both the floor and ceiling. The former might not be a problem once the audience arrives, the latter could however. Depending on the height and geometry if the ceiling.

[Josh Hana]

What kind of venue are you going to be using this system in?

Having them horizontal is definitely not the way those boxes were intended to be deployed. You're wasting a lot of energy throwing to the ground and ceiling (even outdoors this is a waste). 45 degrees horizontal is VERY narrow for a FOH application. Have you tried a really heavy duty speaker stand? At under 30lbs each, I would think 3 boxes would still work on a stand. At the old company we had UPAs on all kinds of really flimsy sticks, and those are 75lbs each, I'm sure there's a way you can get all 3 together on one stand. Either that or use 2 on a stand, and maybe 1 as an in/out/front fill? Is that what you were doing before? Any issue running that way?

[lionel rodrigues]

wanna know if placing three tops interlocked horizontally on top of two 728's per side may be used as a temporary solution till I can get some lifts. Until now was working with two tops on a tripod stand along with a single 728. Will probably place the speakers on a low scaffolding or on the edge of the stage.

well i am using two as in-fills, works quite well this way, the two up on the tripod stand above the 728's project out-field whereas the single box hits near-field.

[James A. Griffin]

Have you tried a really heavy duty speaker stand? At under 30lbs each, I would think 3 boxes would still work on a stand.

Do not even think about that.     There's a very good reason that JBL says to put only 2 boxes on a stand or on their pole-mount w/sub.     After 2 boxes the distribution of the weight will make it almost impossible for the array to sit on top of any stand.   Not to mention that the top box will be pointed at the ceiling.

[Josh Hana]

Do not even think about that.     There's a very good reason that JBL says to put only 2 boxes on a stand or on their pole-mount w/sub.     After 2 boxes the distribution of the weight will make it almost impossible for the array to sit on top of any stand.   Not to mention that the top box will be pointed at the ceiling.

I somehow misread the topic (monday morning....) I wouldn't suggest stacking 3 932s on a stand, even if they are the passive boxes.

[James A. Griffin]

At under 30lbs each, I would think 3 boxes would still work on a stand.

They weigh 46 lb each

[Tim Weaver]

They weigh 46 lb each

Exactly. I've broken a lighter stand with just 2 VRX on it.

VRX on their side works fine. I've done it many times when used as sidefills on a bigger stage. The narrow horizontal pattern was exactly what I wanted to keep the material up front, and out of the backline mics.

[Riley Casey]

If 45 degrees horizontal coverage by 100 degree vertical coverage is your goal it will work like a champ.  If the more common wide horizontal and narrow vertical is the goal one solution that works well is to build a 'ramp' of plywood that can be put under the bottom VRX to hold them up such that the middle box is on the desired horizontal plane.  Turn your sub so that the long dimension is vertical, stack the VRX on top of that with the ramp under them and use a ratchet strap around the sub to keep the tops from rattling loose.

[John Moore]

I am sorry, it just looks dumb...we had the local theater do the same thing for a park concert and it sounded horrible, but that I think is attributed to those boxes...

[Shawn Keck]

You can use the rigging array frame as a ground stack frame on the bottom. You would be better off building a plywood "wedge" to get the angle you want and ground stacking them on your sub. I did that once strapped up on a scaffolding and it worked great...granted is was in a theme park buried in some trees and not as mains on a stage...

[Samuel Rees]

I'm out right now so someone else can do the search, but someone around here has a sweet groundstack QSC KLA array frame custom made.

[Kirby Yarbrough]

a sweet groundstack QSC KLA array frame custom made.

It was Steven Barnes: http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,140748.msg1304881.html#msg1304881

[Samuel Rees]

It was Steven Barnes: http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,140748.msg1304881.html#msg1304881

Thank you sir, that's the one.

[lionel rodrigues]

wanna know if placing three tops interlocked horizontally on top of two 728's per side may be used as a temporary solution till I can get some lifts. Until now was working with two tops on a tripod stand along with a single 728. Will probably place the speakers on a low scaffolding or on the edge of the stage.

wanna use all three tops though, i think its better to go with the earlier config of two per side with two in-fills

[Brad Weber]

wanna use all three tops though, i think its better to go with the earlier config of two per side with two in-fills

Is the goal to serve some specific use or simply to use the speakers?  The point several have tried to make is that whether something may work well or not depends on what you are trying to do and in this case that has not been defined, in particular the area you are trying to cover and how that may relate to the pattern of the speakers.

[lionel rodrigues]

Is the goal to serve some specific use or simply to use the speakers?  The point several have tried to make is that whether something may work well or not depends on what you are trying to do and in this case that has not been defined, in particular the area you are trying to cover and how that may relate to the pattern of the speakers.

i wanna use all three speakers as two just ain't enough, i wanna get a good throw to about 30 metres or so, width of the place doesn't matter much but roundabout 12 metres, more for outdoor gigs ..

[lionel rodrigues]

i wanna use all three speakers as two just ain't enough, i wanna get a good throw to about 30 metres or so, width of the place doesn't matter much but roundabout 12 metres, more for outdoor gigs ..

coupled together these give quite a decent low-mid response, lesser the boxes the poorer it is

[Mark McFarlane]

i wanna use all three speakers as two just ain't enough, i wanna get a good throw to about 30 metres or so, width of the place doesn't matter much but roundabout 12 metres, more for outdoor gigs ..

To rephrase some previous posts, three speakers horizontal may be worse then two vertical, and wanting to use three instead of two because two doesn't work can actually take you backwards. 

It may be helpful to think of speakers as flashlights, it matters a LOT where you point them.

It depends on WHERE you want the sound to go.

Three horizontal will put lots of sound on the floor and ceiling.  Two vertical will put more sound off to the sides.  If you have balcony, three horizontal may work OK. If no one is sitting on the ceiling, putting a lot of volume there will likely make your system sound worse due to reflections, not better.

[lionel rodrigues]

To rephrase some previous posts, three speakers horizontal may be worse then two vertical, and wanting to use three instead of two because two doesn't work can actually take you backwards. 

It may be helpful to think of speakers as flashlights, it matters a LOT where you point them.

It depends on WHERE you want the sound to go.

Three horizontal will put lots of sound on the floor and ceiling.  Two vertical will put more sound off to the sides.  If you have balcony, three horizontal may work OK. If no one is sitting on the ceiling, putting a lot of volume there will likely make your system sound worse due to reflections, not better.

For the last gig I used two each per side on tripod stands and 1 each side as fills.

[lionel rodrigues]

For the last gig I used two each per side on tripod stands and 1 each side as fills.

The quality of sound is good but throw leaves a lot to be desired.

[Merlijn van Veen]

i wanna use all three speakers as two just ain't enough, i wanna get a good throw to about 30 metres or so, width of the place doesn't matter much but roundabout 12 metres, more for outdoor gigs ..

Where does your coverage start? Lets assume 2 meters. That's 28 meters left to cover, or 29 dB (Inverse Square Law) if you will. Subtract another  6 dB's at the most for center panned sources in a stereo setup, leaves 24 dB's. Regardless, there's no single (not coupled) point source I know of, that can level such odds by itself. Without extreme elevation. You mentioned that this was a temporary solution and I strongly recommend you keep thinking of it like that. These speakers are designed to be used vertically and preferably flown. Under those circumstances they'll prove you far more worth. Invest in proper rigging. No offense and with all due respect.

[James A. Griffin]

These speakers are designed to be used vertically and preferably flown. Under those circumstances they'll prove you far more worth. Invest in proper rigging.

+1     3 or 4 per side on lifts will give you a lot of coverage.

[Brad Weber]

i wanna use all three speakers as two just ain't enough, i wanna get a good throw to about 30 metres or so, width of the place doesn't matter much but roundabout 12 metres, more for outdoor gigs ..

The width doesn't matter?  Don't you want to try to cover all of your audience?  Perhaps that is what is missing here, there is a huge difference in the resulting pattern of the array whether you have the three boxes oriented horizontally or vertically and that probably will matter for the vast majority of listeners located off axis.

[ProSoundWeb Community]