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Author Topic: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?  (Read 32959 times)

Richard Penrose

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Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« on: July 09, 2013, 04:56:24 pm »

Hi,

I've been using a Presonus StudioLive 16:0:2 with my live system for nearly a year and have been very pleased with it's sound and ease of use. The Studiolive was quite a step up from the Yamaha 01v and MG desks I had.

After spending some considerable time using the 16:0:2 there are a few features that I wish I had :-

1/ Remote iPad mixing without a laptop!
2/ Digitally controllable preamps (gain)
3/ 4 band parametric eq per channel instead of 3 band on 16:0:2
4/ 6 auxes would be nice but not essential

I've been doing a little reading on options and I'm interested in :-

i/ Allen & Heath QU-16
ii/ Behringer X32 Producer (or maybe iX16)
iii/ Line 6 StageScape M20d

The budget would have to be 1600 as I am selling other stuff to fund it. I'm also aware of the Soundcraft Si Expression 1 but this cost's closer to 2000 so I'll have to rule this one out.

Both the A&H are latest products with the QU16 just being released and the X32 Producer coming soon so I realize hands on experience of these may not be possible yet. However the QU16 is said to be based on the iLive and GLD mixers and the X32 Producer is said to sound exactly the same as the original X32.

What would your thoughts be on these three desks and which would you recommend?
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brian maddox

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Re: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 05:16:06 pm »

Hi,

I've been using a Presonus StudioLive 16:0:2 with my live system for nearly a year and have been very pleased with it's sound and ease of use. The Studiolive was quite a step up from the Yamaha 01v and MG desks I had.

After spending some considerable time using the 16:0:2 there are a few features that I wish I had :-

1/ Remote iPad mixing without a laptop!
2/ Digitally controllable preamps (gain)
3/ 4 band parametric eq per channel instead of 3 band on 16:0:2
4/ 6 auxes would be nice but not essential

I've been doing a little reading on options and I'm interested in :-

i/ Allen & Heath QU-16
ii/ Behringer X32 Producer (or maybe iX16)
iii/ Line 6 StageScape M20d

The budget would have to be 1600 as I am selling other stuff to fund it. I'm also aware of the Soundcraft Si Expression 1 but this cost's closer to 2000 so I'll have to rule this one out.

Both the A&H are latest products with the QU16 just being released and the X32 Producer coming soon so I realize hands on experience of these may not be possible yet. However the QU16 is said to be based on the iLive and GLD mixers and the X32 Producer is said to sound exactly the same as the original X32.

What would your thoughts be on these three desks and which would you recommend?

my only experience is with the X32 so i'll just keep my comments to that desk.

The whole line uses the exact same processing and hardware, so they all sound and operate the same.

If you can squeeze the extra funds for the compact, i'd do that.  The lack of scribble strips on the Producer is a pretty major bummer considering the number of input layers you're dealing with.

The iPad app and mixing with the X32 line is really well done.

The integration of the P16 system makes for an easy upgrade path to IEMs should you choose to go that route.

Okay, end of sales job.  :)  I'll let others chime in on the pros of the other choices....
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Jared Koopman

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Re: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 05:59:47 pm »

Hi,

I've been using a Presonus StudioLive 16:0:2 with my live system for nearly a year and have been very pleased with it's sound and ease of use. The Studiolive was quite a step up from the Yamaha 01v and MG desks I had.

After spending some considerable time using the 16:0:2 there are a few features that I wish I had :-

1/ Remote iPad mixing without a laptop!
2/ Digitally controllable preamps (gain)
3/ 4 band parametric eq per channel instead of 3 band on 16:0:2
4/ 6 auxes would be nice but not essential

I've been doing a little reading on options and I'm interested in :-

i/ Allen & Heath QU-16
ii/ Behringer X32 Producer (or maybe iX16)
iii/ Line 6 StageScape M20d

The budget would have to be 1600 as I am selling other stuff to fund it. I'm also aware of the Soundcraft Si Expression 1 but this cost's closer to 2000 so I'll have to rule this one out.

Both the A&H are latest products with the QU16 just being released and the X32 Producer coming soon so I realize hands on experience of these may not be possible yet. However the QU16 is said to be based on the iLive and GLD mixers and the X32 Producer is said to sound exactly the same as the original X32.

What would your thoughts be on these three desks and which would you recommend?

Are you wanting to stay in the same rack mount style setup? If you just want to use an ipad as your control interface you could go with the X32 Rack (+ S16 stagerack if you want to expand to 32 channels).

I am an X32 user and I really like the board. While I am glad they are expanding the line of products in the family, I agree with Brian that the missing scribble strips on the Producer is a deal breaker for me. With that in mind if I was shopping for a rack mount setup with physical controls I would choose the Qu16 first and the Expression second. I am not a fan of the iPad only setups. They have their uses and it might work for you.

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Tommy Peel

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Re: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2013, 06:07:31 pm »

While I haven't used any of the other boards mentioned I'll put in another vote for the x32 system(whichever one fits your needs best).

Sent from my Milestone X using Tapatalk 2

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Richard Penrose

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Re: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2013, 06:12:16 pm »

Are you wanting to stay in the same rack mount style setup? If you just want to use an ipad as your control interface you could go with the X32 Rack (+ S16 stagerack if you want to expand to 32 channels).

I am an X32 user and I really like the board. While I am glad they are expanding the line of products in the family, I agree with Brian that the missing scribble strips on the Producer is a deal breaker for me. With that in mind if I was shopping for a rack mount setup with physical controls I would choose the Qu16 first and the Expression second. I am not a fan of the iPad only setups. They have their uses and it might work for you.

Ideally I would like to stick with a hardware mixer with iPad control but am considering the X32 rack and iX16. However, I'm a little nervous about only having control via iPad!??

I know a couple of people who've used the X32 and said the desk sounds fantastic and it has stacks of features but can be a pain to use!?

The QU-16 certainly looks very tempting as it has all the features I want + Allen & Heath are 20mins down the road from where I live  :)

Does anyone know how the audio quality of the Allen & Heath QU-16, iLive and GLD desks compare to the X32?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 06:20:29 pm by richard penrose »
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Jason Lucas

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Re: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 06:22:23 pm »

Ideally I would like to stick with a hardware mixer with iPad control but am considering the X32 rack and iX16. However, I'm a little nervous about only having control via iPad!??

I know a couple of people who've used the X32 and said the desk sounds fantastic and it has stacks of features but can be a pain to use!?

The QU-16 certainly looks very tempting as it has all the features I want + Allen & Heath are 20mins down the road from where I live  :)

Does anyone know how the audio quality of the Allen & Heath QU-16, iLive and GLD desks compare to the X32?

I doubt the X32 is a big pain to use.

I played with one at a store having never read the manual and had no trouble navigating it. I  can't see it having a steeper learning curve than anything else out there, really.
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Jared Koopman

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Re: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, 06:22:50 pm »

Ideally I would like to stick with a hardware mixer with iPad control but am considering the X32 rack and iX16. However, I'm a little nervous about only having control via iPad!??

I know a couple of people who've used the X32 and said the desk sounds fantastic and it has stacks of features but can be a pain to use!?

The QU-16 certainly looks very tempting as it has all the features I want + Allen & Heath are 20mins down the road from where I live  :)

Does anyone know how the audio quality of the Allen & Heath QU-16, iLive and GLD desks compare to the X32?

I wouldn't say its a pain to use. Sure it takes some time to get familiar with but I enjoy mixing on it.

Considering the Qu is not out, no one really has a direct comparison. The GLD is a nice system and definitely a step up..but at increased cost.
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2013, 06:41:55 pm »

Looking at the boards you have listed, and the MAP prices, they are all going to fall in nearly the same category.  I added a couple options as well.

1. Allen & Heath QU-16 $2499
Advantage: 16 real sliders to work with. No scribble strips on the board, but with 16 sliders on a 16 input board, it's not as critical, unless you expand. Reviewing the layout of the board seems pretty intuitive. Touch screen interface for easy control. The board can be upgraded to support 32 inputs, with 24 on a remote box, and 8 on the mixer.  Doesn't appear to be a way to make all 32 inputs with a remote box.  Build off of the popular GLD series, so quality is going to be right up there. Unit fits nicely in a 19 inch rack, or looks pretty sweet on its own. Definitely a board worth considering.

2. Behringer X32 Producer $1999
I'll have to say I'm a huge fan of the X32 line.  I've been converted.  The feel of the buttons and knobs isn't quite as nice as the A&H product, but it's a huge improvement over their previous crap. (no offense to crap)  This is a rack mount capable unit as well.  Routing options are completely flexible. You can have all 32 inputs available via stage boxes if you so desire. Pairing this unit up with a second board is pretty easy, allowing for a wide variety of configurations.  It does NOT have a touch screen, but the controls are quite intuitive, and not being a touch screen means the screen stays clean. The downside is that you only have 8 active channel sliders to work with, so you're dealing with layers.  The lack of scribble strips could get frustrating, although there  is plenty of room for old school label tape, if you need it.

3. Behringer X32 compact $2499
Pretty close to the same as the producer, with the addition of scribble strips on each channel, and a slightly more advanced layout.  Functionally identical to the producer.  What you lose by moving up to this model is rack mount size.  It's going to have to live in its own case.  Not a deal breaker, as with this board, you don't need a rack of gear alongside the board.

6. SI Expression $2499
This is a very easy to use digital console.  This has the largest channel count capability of all boards listed, with a max of 56. The fader glow function is pretty nice when switching function of the faders.  However, the lack of scribble strip would make it a challenge to use this board with many inputs.  For some reason, Soundcraft decided to have 2 less sliders than inputs on the entire line.  That means this board has 14 sliders for the 16 inputs.  Weird design decision, if you ask me.

4. Behringer iX16 $999 (estimate) + iPad + WIFI
This hasn't been released yet, officially, but looks to be a pretty cool system for smaller setups.  It would be perfect for small bands.  The downside is that it's dependent on the iPad for mixing, so no real controls on the surface.  Not a big deal, until the battery on your iPad dies half way through the set and you forgot to bring a charger.  You also MUST provide a router for the iPad to work, or connect a laptop via ethernet.  WIFI is not built in, so there are extra wires and connections involved beyond plugging it in and turning it on.

7. Mackie DL1608 $999 + iPad + router
This is a very similar unit to the iX16, and is shipping now.  You'll notice that on this board, there are preamp controls on each channel.  The downside is now preamp controls are a pot, and thus not recallable, but on a positive side, you can make gain adjustment in the event that the iPad gets eaten by a hungry guest.

5. Line 6 StageScape M20d $2499
This is an interesting looking box.  I haven't had the pleasure to use one yet, but it takes automatic to a whole different level.  It tries to mix for you.  Reviews seem quite positive in its ability to turn anyone into an engineer. This board does not have Ethernet on it, so connectivity requires a USB to WIFI adaptor.  Your iPad must then connect to that network.  This means no internet access on the iPad while controlling the board.  Alternatively, you can use a USB to ethernet adaptor, and then a router if you need to.  Just more cumbersome connections to go horribly wrong during a show.  But at least with this system, you can be functional without the iPad.  That's a huge plus.


Each of these boards has their advantages.  If you're just looking for a standalone, easy to use mixer, I'd look at the Soundcraft or the Allen & Heath.  The X32 Producer would be a close second, but for simple mixing, having only 8 channels in front of you is a bit limiting.  If you're looking to build into bigger systems, then other considerations are at play, such as how you want to expand, and what other products you want to connect to.

I'm not really sold on iPad based systems for mixing yet.  Yes, they are nice, and it's convenient to mix from the pad at times, but I still like the feel of real controls.  When crap hits the fan, I can pull down a master fader pretty quickly.  Booting up a sleeping iPad, and then having to deal with potential connectivity issues while my speakers fry just doesn't sound appealing to me.

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Brian Jojade

Scott Wagner

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Re: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2013, 06:48:48 pm »

I've been using a Presonus StudioLive 16:0:2 with my live system for nearly a year and have been very pleased with it's sound and ease of use. The Studiolive was quite a step up from the Yamaha 01v and MG desks I had.
You really consider the SL 16.0.2 a step up from an O1v?  I sure don't.

I've got an x32 and find it easy to use (and feature rich).

Given prior experience with A&H products, the Qu16 looks interesting.  Since it's not been released yet, nobody has any experience with it.  It's still worth a look/listen.

As for the Line6, I haven't had my hands on one, but it looks like a toy.  Then again, the O1v looked like a toy to me when it was released.
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Scott Wagner
Big Nickel Audio

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Re: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 07:17:44 pm »

Most everything has already been said,  but I would point out that if you get the X32 Rack, you still have a physical control surface in case of an emergency.

Additionally, you can have a laptop wired directly to the X32 while also having wireless iPad control at the same time.

For me, this combination of rudimentary physical controls for emergency use, hard wired laptop connection, remote control of input gains and fine details from the iPad app all combined with MIDI foot switch scene switching ability, makes the X32 Rack a really great option.

The X32 Rack also makes for a very small stage footprint.  My intention is to use an existing 8 space rack (used to be my amp rack years ago) to hold my Furman power conditioner (1 space), X32 Rack (3 spaces), Furman wired IEM system (1 space), and a 3 space drawer for holding various asundry stuff for the gig (like the wireless router and Ethernet cables).

I really wanted the X32 Producer, but the lack of scribble strips really bummed me out.  There was also other factors.  A rack mounted physical mixer is more prone to failure from spills, bumps, etc.  This kind of instrument rack (like I am already using for my MixWiz) is also quite large and heavy all by itself.  It also takes up more stage space.

For me, one of the big bonuses for the X32 was the ability to use a simple MIDI foot controller to change scenes remotely on the mixer.

As far as sound quality goes, I have heard a couple of people that use Eventide and PCM98 reverbs state that there is negligible difference in sound quality for the verbs in the X32 compared to their rack gear.  That is just astonishing considering that either one of those reverb units sells for more than the entire X32.  I have no doubt that the Qu-16 will sound quite good as well since it is using the iLive processing algorithms.  Those that have the Soundcraft Expression Si also have said that the sound quality is very good.  If you are in this class of mixer, then I suspect that the sound quality is going to be based more on how good you are as compared to how good the board you are using is ;)
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Upgrade from Presonus Studiolive 16:0:2?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 07:17:44 pm »


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