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Author Topic: Sound reinforcementCan I run signal directly from amp to high frequency drivers?  (Read 7620 times)

stuartwgibson

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Simple (and possibly horrifying question to you pros), but I'm wondering if it is ok to link additional high frequency drivers (horns) to my system.
I am bi-amping, and the signal passes through a cross-over and a limiter before it gets to the amp.  The cross-over is set to the same frequency limit (on the low end) as the horn (1.6KHz).  To clarify, there is no additional crossover between the amp and the horn in this configuration.  My main concern is over-driving these extra horns, of course. 
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John Roberts {JR}

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Depends on the drivers but LF energy can damage HF drivers.

JR
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stuartwgibson

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Thanks, yes.  So if my board crossover is limiting the signal to 1.6 KHz and above, will that protect the driver from damaging low frequencies? 

Depends on the drivers but LF energy can damage HF drivers.

JR
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Ivan Beaver

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Simple (and possibly horrifying question to you pros), but I'm wondering if it is ok to link additional high frequency drivers (horns) to my system.
I am bi-amping, and the signal passes through a cross-over and a limiter before it gets to the amp.  The cross-over is set to the same frequency limit (on the low end) as the horn (1.6KHz).  To clarify, there is no additional crossover between the amp and the horn in this configuration.  My main concern is over-driving these extra horns, of course.
There are several concerns.  First is the impedance of the drivers on the amplifier.  Next is your statement "The crossover is set to the same frequency limit of the horn"

What exactly does that mean?  Is that the horn? or the driver on the horn"?

Are the new drivers the same model/impedance as the other ones?

You do not need any additional crossover-but you will also not have any protection against low freq "accidents" getting into the drivers.

How is the limiter set?  How were the settings determined?

So as usual-there are a lot of "it depends".  But basically-yes-no problem

OF course actual model numbers of all the pieces would help a lot-to give an idea of what is actually going on.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 09:26:44 pm by Ivan Beaver »
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

stuartwgibson

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Well, you zeroed right in on the weakness in my knowledge here..:-)  The high frequency driver is 8 Ohms / 125W ( I guess I was using "horn" improperly).  The amp can drive 2-8 Ohms.  All the other elements in my high end chain are 8 Ohms as well, but the others have built in crossovers in the cabinets.

There are several concerns.  First is the impedance of the drivers on the amplifier.  Next is your statement "The crossover is set to the same frequency limit of the horn"

What exactly does that mean?  Is that the horn? or the driver on the horn"?

Are the new drivers the same model/impedance as the other ones?

You do not need any additional crossover-but you will also not have any protection against low freq "accidents" getting into the drivers.

How is the limiter set?  How were the settings determined?

So as usual-there are a lot of "it depends".  But basically-yes-no problem

OF course actual model numbers of all the pieces would help a lot-to give an idea of what is actually going on.
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stuartwgibson

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Following up:  These are B-52 Comp-3300 compression drivers.  The amps are QSC 3400W.  I've been using the limiter to keep the amps from clipping, but admittedly, that won't protect the high end of my output chain from being over-driven, since it uses far less power than the low end.


How is the limiter set?  How were the settings determined?

So as usual-there are a lot of "it depends".  But basically-yes-no problem

OF course actual model numbers of all the pieces would help a lot-to give an idea of what is actually going on.
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Tim Perry

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Following up:  These are B-52 Comp-3300 compression drivers.  The amps are QSC 3400W.  I've been using the limiter to keep the amps from clipping, but admittedly, that won't protect the high end of my output chain from being over-driven, since it uses far less power than the low end.


How is the limiter set?  How were the settings determined?

So as usual-there are a lot of "it depends".  But basically-yes-no problem

OF course actual model numbers of all the pieces would help a lot-to give an idea of what is actually going on.

Stuart, more is not necessarily better especially when dealing with the HF part of the speaker.

 If you are using a 3400W amp on the HF section I suspect a lot of it's capability is being wasted, or at least not being utilized.
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stuartwgibson

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For sure, I am not fully utilizing the amp for the highs.  But I'm maxing out the low amp, and kept blowing diapraghms in the HFDs trying to keep the highs and lows matched.  So I'm hoping to reinforce the highs, thereby using more of the available amp power without jeopardizing my array of HFDs. 


Stuart, more is not necessarily better especially when dealing with the HF part of the speaker.

 If you are using a 3400W amp on the HF section I suspect a lot of it's capability is being wasted, or at least not being utilized.
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Tim Perry

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For sure, I am not fully utilizing the amp for the highs.  But I'm maxing out the low amp, and kept blowing diapraghms in the HFDs trying to keep the highs and lows matched.  So I'm hoping to reinforce the highs, thereby using more of the available amp power without jeopardizing my array of HFDs.

Add one or 2 tail lamps in series with the driver.

Am I safe in assuming this in for DJ service?
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Ivan Beaver

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For sure, I am not fully utilizing the amp for the highs.  But I'm maxing out the low amp, and kept blowing diapraghms in the HFDs trying to keep the highs and lows matched.  So I'm hoping to reinforce the highs, thereby using more of the available amp power without jeopardizing my array of HFDs.
Simply adding more HF drivers will make it louder-but it WILL ALSO make it sound WORSE.

Your best bet is to use FEWER-BETTER QUALITY HF drivers.  This way you can get louder and sound better.  Of course it will cost more.

Adding more subs is one thing-adding more highs is a totally different matter and MUCH hrader (to get them to sound good).  It is real easy electrically-but ACOUSTICALLY is where the challenge is.  It is one of the hardest things to do in audio-at least to do RIGHT.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

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