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Author Topic: Sub Placement?  (Read 4975 times)

Aaron Weidner

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Sub Placement?
« on: June 30, 2013, 04:08:53 pm »

I have read a lot and tried a few things regarding sub placement in a bar that i use my system in but i thought i would ask the pros what they thought. I have tried a few sub locations in this venue, split apart side by side under the mains, you could ride a boat on the modes and nodes as you walk from the front to the back of the venue. Side by side in its current position i found that the mid lows sound like they were deleted. This lead me to the current setup which is pretty even through the bar except when your on the oppsite side of them, results in less bass but its more even. i was thinking of trying 2 other things. both of them stacked but all the way back to the left of the bear, one on either side of the door, and both of them on either side of the door but as far back as possible. Any comments, questions, ideas or concerns? Or just try the different places out when i am able to and see what happens? thanks :-)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 11:18:25 pm by Aaron Weidner »
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Scott Harris

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Re: Sub Placement?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2013, 08:31:00 am »

Do you have a processor to adjust the delay?  If not and you only have a crossover, did you try flipping the phase button in all positions?
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sam saponaro

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Re: Sub Placement?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2013, 10:15:44 am »

both of them stacked but all the way back to the left of the bear,
With the bears arms out doing nothing......you could have him hold a sub it would be like line arrays.......BEAR ARRAYS... ;D(I'm gonna patent that)LOL
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Aaron Weidner

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Re: Sub Placement?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2013, 02:00:12 pm »

Do you have a processor to adjust the delay?  If not and you only have a crossover, did you try flipping the phase button in all positions?

Yes, i am using a DriveRack PA+, I'm so picky i even have delay on the mains now because the subs are 2.5 ft behind the mains lol. I also personally wired the speakons on the amp side for all cables so i could run everything in bridge mono, i did them at the same time and even then i took them apart after i put them back together to check them again ( but i have thought about taking them apart to check them again ). That being said, the jumper cable between the subs shouldn't have to have been adjusted should it?

With the bears arms out doing nothing......you could have him hold a sub it would be like line arrays.......BEAR ARRAYS... ;D(I'm gonna patent that)LOL

LOL!
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Scott Harris

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Re: Sub Placement?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2013, 04:29:44 pm »

Yes, i am using a DriveRack PA+, I'm so picky i even have delay on the mains now because the subs are 2.5 ft behind the mains lol. I also personally wired the speakons on the amp side for all cables so i could run everything in bridge mono, i did them at the same time and even then i took them apart after i put them back together to check them again ( but i have thought about taking them apart to check them again ). That being said, the jumper cable between the subs shouldn't have to have been adjusted should it?

LOL!
Are you starting from dbx presets for your mains, subs & amps?

There's no LOL about using delay, to many people it's a basic requirement.  How did you set it?

By "personally wired the speakons" do you mean created a bridging adapter putting 1+ and 2+ together?  Are they all set the same way?  Did you test it acoustically?

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Aaron Weidner

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Re: Sub Placement?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2013, 05:50:07 pm »

Are you starting from dbx presets for your mains, subs & amps?

There's no LOL about using delay, to many people it's a basic requirement.  How did you set it?

By "personally wired the speakons" do you mean created a bridging adapter putting 1+ and 2+ together?  Are they all set the same way?  Did you test it acoustically?

There are no dbx presets for my mains and subs, there are for the amps and they are set accordingly as well as a manual setup for my main and subs. The reason why i found that im using a delay some what humorous is because was told by people in the area who have their own rigs that never use delay have said delay isn't necessary unless its over a 5 ft difference. I should have known better than to display that sort of thinking on this forum and i apologize for it.  I set it by measuring the distance between the voice coil on the 15 in the main and the voice coil in the sub and inputting that distance into the driverack using coarse and fine adjustments in feet. What i mean by personally wired the speakons is i bought NL-4 ends took the NL2 ends off one side and wired them so they would use both channels in the amplifiers when using the bridge setting according to the manual that came with the amplifiers ( 2 crown XTI 1002 and 1 crown XTI 2002 ). Yes they are all set the same way, as i had mentioned earlier i even double checked them before i used them. Acoustically i did not check them.  The question i have isn't about having no bass at all, its about the room response with the subs i have varies greatly depending on their location due to the layout of the room. If only that door wasn't in the middle of the place.
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Bill Hornibrook

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Re: Sub Placement?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 11:10:05 am »

one on either side of the door...
... and off the riser (on the floor). That's where I would have started out. I see a smallish room with lots of highly reflective surfaces (glass, brick, hardwood) - so it's tricky, but generally I want all my speakers lined up in situations like that.
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Sub Placement?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 06:59:43 pm »

What i mean by personally wired the speakons is i bought NL-4 ends took the NL2 ends off one side and wired them so they would use both channels in the amplifiers when using the bridge setting

Hold on some clarification is needed here because the description of how you wired the speakers for bridged mode appears to be wrong. When an amp is set to bridged mode the design intention is that it will now be used as a single channel amp(channels are bridged or coupled together to act as one) and speakers are to be connected to the hot(red) terminals of each channel only, or if using the special CH1 speakon connector found on many newer amps the speakers are wired to 1+ and 2+ terminals of that connector only. So there should only be 1 cable coming from the amp going to the first speaker and then a jumper from the first box to the second.
If you instead attach speakers to the L and R outputs (1+1-, 2+2-) by any method.. a single 4 conductor cable or two seperates, then the attached speakers are now out of polarity with each other and you will get no bass.
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Aaron Weidner

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Re: Sub Placement?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 07:56:49 pm »

Hold on some clarification is needed here because the description of how you wired the speakers for bridged mode appears to be wrong. When an amp is set to bridged mode the design intention is that it will now be used as a single channel amp(channels are bridged or coupled together to act as one) and speakers are to be connected to the hot(red) terminals of each channel only, or if using the special CH1 speakon connector found on many newer amps the speakers are wired to 1+ and 2+ terminals of that connector only. So there should only be 1 cable coming from the amp going to the first speaker and then a jumper from the first box to the second.
If you instead attach speakers to the L and R outputs (1+1-, 2+2-) by any method.. a single 4 conductor cable or two seperates, then the attached speakers are now out of polarity with each other and you will get no bass.

I apologize for not being clear. I wired the new connectors correctly so i could take advantage of the amplifiers Bridged mode on Ch 1. 1+/2+
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Aaron Weidner

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Re: Sub Placement?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2013, 08:17:58 pm »

... and off the riser (on the floor). That's where I would have started out. I see a smallish room with lots of highly reflective surfaces (glass, brick, hardwood) - so it's tricky, but generally I want all my speakers lined up in situations like that.

* edit * i wanted to add i measured the riser is 9.5 inches from the floor if that helps anybody. as well as i might try to put them in the very back corners vs under the tops. Just lost in the sauce.  :-\
* edit *
ok... 3rd try... been having picture issues which have been causing me to loose my replies.. That was my first thought but i am not allowed to put the speakers on the floor on either side of the door because they can become obstacle for people if a fire were to happen and somebody happened to move or push them in a rush to get out. Yes in deed, lots of hard surfaces. I will include a picture from the POV of looking towards the back standing between the mains and subs in the picture posted earlier. In the current setup, when your standing between 0-8 ft from the door on the outside the bass is amazing, as you walk in and start walking toward the back, as soon as you cross the threshold of the door the bass is reduced greatly and stays that way until you are off the dance area and the bass starts picking back up and sounding decent ( but not like outside ) right at the point where the wood/glass doors on the right ends. it stays pretty even until you get to the arch way where the blue pool table lights are its somewhat diminished and as soon as your standing in the short hallway in the very back its like your standing outside again. With them under the mains, awesome bass at the door, dance floor no bass, just after dance floor bass, then 3/4 way to the arch way bass with a dead spot in between and on the other side of the arch way it was crazy. Yes there was large quantities of bass peopled liked, but it really bugged me how /\/\/\/\ it was while walking through the place. either way there is very little bass at the dance area ( in the picture it is from where im standing to a little bit past the fire alarm up on the wall where the staircase for the basement is). Sound is a love hate relationship for me. although i do love it and i try to make it better every time i set my system up. The owner might think im crazy. heh
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 08:20:34 pm by Aaron Weidner »
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